Although most party messageboards show a fairly equal number of male and female users these days (more girls/women have access to the Internet nowadays), and this board has a lot of young ladies on here (even if they are a bit shy) I’ve noticed a big gender gap at parties…
groups attending them (or wanting to do so) are fairly mixed, but (with some notable exceptions such as the crew I am assisting at the moment) most groups organising parties still seem to be very male-dominated.
its perfectly understandable that the ladies may not want to lug about such items heavy speaker cabinets and generator sets; but there are other things such as fine cable wiring (girls are actually often better at this than blokes as they have more agility and patience!), logistics and design which both genders can contribute to…
it still comes across though on some crews that girls are often seen as “interchangeable peripherals” – usually as DJ’s/promoters partners (often described in rather less savoury terms) and not as full crew members; almost as “trophies” or “new bits of rig kit to display by the stack!”
There’s too much adherence to traditional British gender roles – where women have been discouraged from learning about technology, or getting involved in “management” matters…. its inexplicably seen as “unfeminine” to do so ?!
OTOH I know of one girl who does all the technical work for her own rig; and helps some of the other crews – but she is originally from an Eastern European country where this gender gap did not exist….
Unfortunately, it appears that when sometimes when women do try to assert themselves there is a backlash – blokes shout down their partners (or other girls) in the middle of raves, one crew even searched record bags of female DJs to check they are not competing with the blokes!
girls on messageboards (and at parties) are harrased (or seen as potential “casual partners”) and worst of all there is a hidden problem of domestic violence on the rave scene, some of it quite serious…
It may be the case this is no different from wider British society (I read today that British gender equality is now worse than Iraq, Afghanistan and Rwanda – three conservative mostly Islamic states!) – but shouldn’t party people be striving for something better?
A lot of women I know appear to tire of the party scene because of this – especially when they meet a long-term partner, embark upon a professional career or start a family; and at that point they realise their inner power and that they may have been taken for granted in previous years or by previous partners they may have met at raves (there is a problem with blokes who become “dependent” on their partners by leaving the woman to get a full time job whilst they take increasing risks with their lives and careers, often falling into chaotic and self-destructive patterns of drug use)
And if the girls eventually they think the party scene is a rather selfish, misogynistic scene, why should they support it and defend it against the authorities when they get older and have power in society? (in the USA women outnumber men) – theres also a shift towards social conservatism in women as they get older, as they start wanting to (understandably) protect children and families….
Its worth all of us remembering we need both genders to fight our corner…
I agree. Interestingly enough there is an article on the BBC today about the gender gap being ‘decades away’ before we have equality :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4582878.stm
I think this is more job/politics related but there are parallels with the rave scene organisation aswell im sure.
what do you mean the ladies are shy? :bitter:
well not you in particular 😉
but there seem to be lots of girls who sign up here, lurk for a bit but either only use this place to check the calendar (fair enough if thats all they want) but never post.
that said its no different from other message boards; of course blokes do the same and and we do have a few ladies like yourself, and others who are perfectly happy to take part in discussions – but I sometimes find it hard to believe that our new members (whatever gender they are) have so little so say sometimes (even if we have to be careful about talking about unlicensed events we can still talk about music, lifestyles and loads of other stuff!)
I do worry though that its because girls are so used to receiving sleazy, or harrasing messages when on the net (some scum think they can get away with this because its “harder to trace” ) that they are keeping quiet for that reason – I know several girls (and even older women) who have had bad experiences on other boards, including people even trying to drive a wedge between them and their partners..
but this is never tolerated here – we allow free speech but not when it shouts down others…
It’s true GL, there aren’t many girls in crews. I try to help where I can, I usually carry the cabling crates, the hippos and help to put up backdrops (as you know), but amp racks and the boxes are beyond me tbh!
Vix3ns flatmate (I don’t know her online name) is doing a course at the moment in sound engineering and has a couple of jobs doing this part time. Fair play!!
Equipment and lights don’t flick my switch so to speak…….I know that you, 34all, wkd and waxface like to ‘geek out’ over such things, I prefer the end product! 😉
:bounce_m: :bigsmile: :bounce_m:
does seem to be a cultural / personal thing which depends to an extent on nationality – Diskodoris does all the tech work for her crew (in fact the lads there leave her to it as they don’t understand the details and just cart about the heavy stuff!)
in the USA an increasing number of the websites and tech review pages are run by girls.. its only fairly recently however that girls in the UK have been encouraged by society to take an interest in technology (mid-late 1980s onwards), the gender/age profiles of most UK on-line communities often reflect this….
there are plenty of lads who don’t understand technology that well but either bulls*it about it or get others to help… but one unfortunate thing I’ve sometimes seen is when a girl does suggest something “technical” or “operational” (i.e. to do with putting on a rave) she is often ignored because of her gender…
the real issue is everyone working together whatever their skills or gender and creating safe environments….
(sounds like hippy stuff but thats the only way we are going to challenge increasing opposition, even if there aren’t as many girls helping put on raves, wider society is also trying to close the gender gap and there are more and more female cops, civil servants, councilllors and magistrates!)
I know this is a serious subject but that made me crack up. New bits of rig kit indeed.
I agree with what you are saying on the techy side of it. Girls do tend to shy away from the more technical jobs with rigs etc, no doubt because they know what a lot of males attitudes will be like.
But as far as dj’ing is concerned I don’t notice much of a prejudice from males towards females. The attitude seems to be a welcoming one. That’s just my experience though.
would agree wit you but i dont think this is a consious thing or a sexist thing, at least not at the parties i go to.:crazy_fre
From the party photos I have seen the East anglian crowd does actually look quite mixed (perhaps with more girls than other areas) ours used to be like that but a lot of the girls I know have dropped out now for various reasons (not just marriage or motherhood, some have left because they are disillusioned with what raves have become)…
Although female DJs have always been popular there are still not enough girls who are involved in the actual decision making associated with raves. It is still a male-dominated pastime with a culture of fighting and conflict embededed in it, even if usually low-level.
I think this needs to change; as we need more positive input from both genders to combat a nasty trend of violence and sexual predation (rape, assaults) on the rave scene.
there has always been this problem since the 90s but it was denied or worse-accepted by males on the scene (early 90s raves had a “hard man” culture associated with them) but you would think as the scene grew it would be stopped.
Instead, its getting worse, if a scene can happen such an in Spain where a girl is raped and ends up half-stripped at an NYE party (having been dumped between two rig vans) (and no one seems to intervene or even notice) that just shows the rest of society that there is a callous misogynistic attitude hidden away at raves.
At the same time, when more and more women (often younger ones) are reaching positions of conventional societal authority (for instance the new Chief Constable in Thames Valley will be female) this is a definite danger – it would be a tragedy if our scene came under justified attack from authorities because it cannot provide a safe environment for people!
But as far as dj’ing is concerned I don’t notice much of a prejudice from males towards females. The attitude seems to be a welcoming one. That’s just my experience though.
I am both sound engineer and Dj and the attitude towards me varies…
I remember turning up at one party where the guys had hired the rig and hadn’t a clue how to set it up, i went up and asked if they wanted a hand and they just looked me up and down as if to say “you help but you’re a woman!!” so i left them to it for 30mins and they still were no further an my mate who knew them said ah guy’s have you met my mate Seonaid she’s a sound engineer… man they felt daft..
I help lug the speakers an shit about at parties both one’s i’ve organised and others i can’t help myself.. At one party a guy went up to the organiser and said there’s some bird helping S****y lift the bassbins into the van… to which he replied that would be Seonaid… guy was like how you know that..?? Coz she’s they only female here that can and has to help..
People who see me step up to the decks expect me to play trance or house not hard acid techno…
It bugs me somewhat that in this day an age people still have this attitude why can’t women be sound engineers and Dj’s and do all the same stuff guys do…
Guess my attitude is anything they can do I can probably do better :bigsmile:
I agree with GL who said “Although female DJs have always been popular there are still not enough girls who are involved in the actual decision making associated with raves. It is still a male-dominated pastime”
So come on girls lets show em all how its done eh???
Rant over…:razz:
although I initially aimed this at UK ravers (partly because gender relations have indeed got worse here in the last 20 years!) would be interested to know what its like in the wider euro-teknival scene (and any idea how to improve things….) – perhaps liaphin or anyone else from EU would like to comment?
incidentally although it may seem odd that the UK is worse than some Islamic countries for equality, its not as strange as you may think!
I know a number of Muslim people at work (both male and female) and loads of the girls know advanced stuff about computers, technology, electronics, many do their own DIY (including brick-laying and concrete mixing!) and repair motor cars and other items…
They mention that they have a Friday “education” session after their prayers, at which the genders are taught separately. Many girls say they can learn about such things as computers, technology without the men interrupting them or competing with one another….
As a woman who is not part of a crew, but attends parties, raves and clubs, I must totally agree with all that has been posted. Women are treated as second class citizins in all spheres of life and society, and it is a real shame that when we go out to party with people that we believe to be like-minded we have to put up with it too. Much respect to all sisters who have the guts to go onto the decks and mix it up the lads. Whenever I see a feamle dj blasting techno or drum n bass it fills me with a real sense of pride, and its funny to see how lads respond. They will always comment as if in shock “look its a bird”.
In relation to women helping with rigs, its time that men woke up to the fact that most women are just as strong as men and just as capable.
My partner is not really into techno or drum n bass, so I often attend parties without him, with male and female friends. At parties I do often feel threatened by the lack of women present and the fact that some men at the parties seem to be more than willing to try and take advantage of women who may be indulging in class a’s. It can really ruin a blissfull moment when men who think that your too wrecked to care try to force themselves on you. This I think is the greatest threat to female partygoers. How are you supposed to able to relax if you think that someone might try to grab you.There seems to be a styereotype whereby women who take go to parties and take drugs are all easy and up for casual sex. People throwing parties have a responsibility to ensure that everybody is safe at their parties especially if illegal substances are involved.
All in all though, I do find most raves friendly places to be, and it is only a very small group of men who make it difficult for women to be truelly free to have a great time.
i think that it is up to us to make it different
i have female crew members and female djs and not as trophies either but i agree that they are a much undervalued resource of the dance scene. I have, on occasion, derived a huge amount of entertainement from leaving female sound engineers to run our rig êspecially when the boys who are playing arent used to dealing with women in charge. :groucho: :groucho: :groucho:
i like to work with a mix of sexes when sorting out events as you get a wider pool of ideas to work from and there is stuff that women will think of that will not occur to guys [sorry guys] some of my most reliable rig members are female (by which i mean they will be the ones helping me take down the rig at the end if i am stuck)
coming from an area of scotland where it is still possible to get ignored if you walk into a garage and ask what is wrong with your car if you are female i also find it [take note you lot] very useful to make the official liason with the men in grey [officials of all kinds] female as they are less likely to be openly aggressive towards women than men [the weaker sex and all that] and will listen more carefully to what they are saying
mine is the rig where the females come and hang out if they are being harrassed by others as it is well known that we are a zero tolerance zone for harrassment. I think the behaviour towards single females can be sickening sometimes :you_crazy:you_crazy:you_crazy
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