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January 6, 2005 at 2:19 pm

#687691
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globalloon

@globalloon

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sounds a bit terrifying to me.. while Holland has success with many liberal and forward thinking policies, English people just don’t seem to have the common sense to let these things work

here’s hoping tho

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4151047.stm

Road users mingle in naked scheme

Traditional traffic controls would be stripped away
A west London road may be stripped of its kerb, traffic lights and signs in an attempt to encourage pedestrians and cars to mingle.
Exhibition Road in Kensington could be the showcase for the “naked road” experiment – pioneered in Holland.

Organisers say the idea works as a form of psychological traffic calming which encourages drivers to be more considerate to pedestrians.

But an RAC spokesman said it may encourage drivers to be more reckless.

RAC Foundation executive director Edmund King said: “This is a form of psychological traffic calming which encourages drivers to slow down and think a lot more about pedestrians and other road users.

“We shall be following this trial very closely.

“In Holland, there have been places where a number of roads meet and no one has the automatic right of way. Although this might make drivers more careful, it could also encourage the aggressive motorist to behave more recklessly.

“We would certainly question whether this type of experiment should be implemented on a wider scale.”

Exhibition Road, home of the Science, Natural History and Victoria and Albert museum, could have a maximum speed limit of 20mph and drivers will not automatically have right of way over pedestrians who will be able to cross anywhere on the road.
January 6, 2005 at 2:27 pm

#852168
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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LOL I bet this thread gets bare(!) hits from people who are gonna be a bit disappointed TBH when they see its about environment type stuff 😀

Seriously though I reckon it may work to an extent without too many casualties; but only because traffic in central london is fairly slow anyway, and the presence of witnesses,cops and CCTV that exist in London may deter drivers from knocking people down in cold blood….
January 6, 2005 at 3:53 pm

#852174
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mry

@mry

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Hmm – I go around on bike and seriously, I feel quite good when there’s a trafic light because it, well – defines my “traffic rights”, otherwise sooo neglected… I try to get eye contact with the conductor (my psychological weapon), that works, I get the attention and can claim my right, but do I really get his sincere respect and comprehension ? People get crazy in their cars, suddenly they’re in such a hurry…
January 6, 2005 at 4:28 pm

#852169
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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mry wrote:

Hmm – I go around on bike and seriously, I feel quite good when there’s a trafic light because it, well – defines my “traffic rights”, otherwise sooo neglected… I try to get eye contact with the conductor (my psychological weapon), that works, I get the attention and can claim my right, but do I really get his sincere respect and comprehension ? People get crazy in their cars, suddenly they’re in such a hurry…
another cyclist – excellent 🙂

I’m also aware of the “look in their eyes” advice – I reckon it gets you your bit of space but some of the drivers will still hate you..

every time I ride back home it is shocking how many times I see incidents where two drivers are basically taking risks with everyones lives to be first in or out at some road junction 🙁

As for traffic lights I think the ones which also let bikes through (sometimes by a different route) are good for rush hour, but the cycle routes here seem designed by someone on ketamine and lead you on long detours if you do not know the city well – it is clear that some councils see you as “second class”

incidentally do you cycle in both the UK and Europe? are the streets better laid out outside the UK? (many people claim this)
January 6, 2005 at 5:01 pm

#852172
1

globalloon

@globalloon

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General Lighting wrote:

incidentally do you cycle in both the UK and Europe? are the streets better laid out outside the UK? (many people claim this)

I think a significant part of the problem with roads / traffic / space for pedestrians and cyclists in the UK is the same as many of our other social ills… we are very very overpopulated. Not much you can do about that…

although I’d still love to see at least one city at least attempt the Montpellier FR model of simply banning all cars from the centre* and building a tramway

* with the exception of delivery vehicles at certain times of day
January 6, 2005 at 8:21 pm

#852170
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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globalloon wrote:

I think a significant part of the problem with roads / traffic / space for pedestrians and cyclists in the UK is the same as many of our other social ills… we are very very overpopulated. Not much you can do about that…

overpopulation, or just bad land distribution / development / street layout caused by nimbyism and complex social structures which concentrate all the people in certain areas and encourage people to drive for 2 hours to their jobs, whilst leaving other places nearly deserted?

The UK population density is only slightly larger than that of Germany, which seems (at least in places like Berlin) to find space for all forms of traffic

Quote:

although I’d still love to see at least one city at least attempt the Montpellier FR model of simply banning all cars from the centre* and building a tramway

* with the exception of delivery vehicles at certain times of day
Reading would be an ideal candidate for this, using pretty much the same routes of the old tramway! It gets discussed every so often but the councils shelve it either due to lack of funds, or party political wrangling which leads to noone reaching a consensus…
January 6, 2005 at 8:30 pm

#852175
1

mry

@mry

Member
General Lighting wrote:

incidentally do you cycle in both the UK and Europe? are the streets better laid out outside the UK? (many people claim this)
Oh boy, yes! I’ve grown up in Denmark, which is like, uhm, heaven for cyclists, you can go everywhere and there are separat pistes for the bikes, very much like the Netherlands, only in the Netherlands these pistes are so crowded, it’s kind of funny, with “rush-hours”, hehe ! I’ve also tried cycling in Belgium and in France, Paris is really harsh, you have to stay with the pedestrians basically, otherwise you feel that you get smAcked so forget about thAt. Bruxelles – well, they drive hasardously, but the pedestrians have all the legal benefits, so they take care of you. Its not always easy to get around though and then cyclists get caught up in the tramway (!!) (Happened to me!) In the south of France, cycling is a leisure, so VTT in the mountains and BMX-stuff are basically the options.
So much about that. Yes, I really like cycling, its absolutely the best way to get around in a city (in theory) and such a charming way to preserve your environment. By the way, a route for bikes have been constructed from Denmark to Rome. It’s an old dream of mine to try that. On an old wreck.
January 6, 2005 at 8:35 pm

#852173
1

globalloon

@globalloon

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General Lighting wrote:

Reading would be an ideal candidate for this, using pretty much the same routes of the old tramway! It gets discussed every so often but the councils shelve it either due to lack of funds, or party political wrangling which leads to noone reaching a consensus…

Selfishly I think exeter would be an excellent place to start… ranking as one of the most poluted cities in the UK is one insentive to try

and having a tiny centre… so you wouldn’t have to walk far if you couldn’t manage much

I also think I am about the only person in the entire city that thinks likes this.
January 6, 2005 at 8:52 pm

#852171
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
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mry wrote:

Oh boy, yes! I’ve grown up in Denmark, which is like, uhm, heaven for cyclists, you can go everywhere and there are separat pistes for the bikes, very much like the Netherlands, only in the Netherlands these pistes are so crowded, it’s kind of funny, with “rush-hours”, hehe !

indeed it was interesting to read the message from the dutch party crew, which warned the cyclists as well to park in appropriate places and not cause a blockage! People sometimes ride to raves if they are local; and if I am in the building with a crew I know I will often find a safe area for people to park their bikes where thieves cannot get at them.

Quote:

I’ve also tried cycling in Belgium and in France, Paris is really harsh, you have to stay with the pedestrians basically, otherwise you feel that you get smAcked so forget about thAt. Bruxelles – well, they drive hasardously, but the pedestrians have all the legal benefits, so they take care of you. Its not always easy to get around though and then cyclists get caught up in the tramway (!!) (Happened to me!) In the south of France, cycling is a leisure, so VTT in the mountains and BMX-stuff are basically the options.
So much about that. Yes, I really like cycling, its absolutely the best way to get around in a city (in theory) and such a charming way to preserve your environment. By the way, a route for bikes have been constructed from Denmark to Rome. It’s an old dream of mine to try that. On an old wreck.
thanks for that excellent info – one year I would like to go on a cycling tour of some parts of europe and I’ve always wondered what the various countries were like…
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