Forums › Rave › Free Parties & Teknivals › First Aid and Treatment : GAS! GAS! GAS! Dealing with irritant sprays
GAS! GAS! GAS!
dealing with irritant sprays, CN/CS/OC types..
OK, heavy stuff again but recent events on the urban music scene and the streets make me feel this thread is unfortunately necessary…
Apart from the over-zealous cops, this nasty stuff is now becoming another “macho fashion accessory” – I’ve seen people with cans of it for “personal protection” even at free parties, despite the fact it is classed as a firearm in Britain and the penalties for carrying it are heavy and may include prison..
we’ve got the following threats..
in many cases and particularly if a large canister is discharged in a confined space, a great number of people will be contaminated, and utter panic can spread through the crowd. it results in a large amount of people presenting for first aid and other emergency medical treatment and there can be occasional serious medical side effects (they are rare but happen).
of course door staff should prevent this stuff getting in in the first place, but how many recognise all the kinds of spray? In some countries ladies are permitted to carry “covert” sprays as defence against muggers and rapists; these are disguised as keyrings and other innocuous items or “rape alarms” – what if one of these falls into the wrong hands and is not picked up at an entry point search?
I think its definitely worth discussing how to deal with such an incident.. particularly as should it occur at an alternative event and not be caused by the law enforcement services it could happen in an uncontrolled manner when people are least expecting it
here’s a start, a paper from a US university which mentions the types of irritant spray in use (clearing up the confusion regards CS “gas” and other substances), actual field studies amongst cops, first aid/decontamination techniques and other experiments.
http://www.opt.pacificu.edu/ce/catalog/web018/pepper.html
perhaps any medical professionals reading this (particularly the “club medics”) would also like to add how they would suggest dealing with such an incident?
found this – surprisingly enough – on the Food Standards Agency website (might be because of connections with chili peppers and other spices I suppose) – statement from Sussex Police is interesting..
TBH though if I was in “the job” I’d be more likely to deploy the spray having been put through the pain of experiencing it – my view would be “if its good enough for me to have to put up with its definitely good enough for the scrotes…”
http://www.food.gov.uk/science/ouradvisors/toxicity/cotmeets/COT2002/AprMtg/minutes
ITEM 4: USE OF PAVA (NONIVAMIDE) AS AN INCAPACITANT SPRAY: TOX/200/1213. PAVA (pelargonyl vanillylamide or nonivamide) is manufactured by Boehringer Ingelheim in Germany and the incapacitant spray is supplied by IDC systems AG in Switzerland. Dr Jackson declared a non-personal non-specific interest and remained for the discussion.
14. The draft statement had been revised following the previous meeting and circulated for postal comment. Further minor amendments had been made to the draft statement and these were pointed out to the Committee.
15. Members were informed of comments provided to Sussex Police by Boehringer Ingelheim regarding the absence of any developmental toxicity study. It was considered that a single topical application to occular membranes was highly unlikely to result in any developmental hazard due to the negligible systemic exposure. However, Members noted that this did not take into account the user, particularly pregnant police officers, who may be exposed more frequently to the PAVA spray. It also assumed that exposure was only through the eyes, whereas exposure could also be via the dermal, oral and inhalation routes.
16. A Member asked whether any data were available from women police officers or contact lens wearers who had been exposed to the spray. It was noted that Sussex Police Force have a voluntary agreement whereby all officers who are to carry the incapacitant spray have experienced the spray being used on them.
17. Members were concerned that, in the human volunteer studies, 20% of the group with mild asthma had shown an adverse response to exposure to 0.1% PAVA, which is lower than the in-use concentration (0.3%). Approximately 10% of the population are thought to be mild asthmatics, so this was of particular concern. It was agreed to expand slightly the relevant section in the conclusions of the statement.
18. The Committee considered that the unpublished reports referred to in the draft statement should be made publicly available. It was agreed that the Secretariat would seek the agreement of Sussex Police for DH to make these reports available if requested when the statement was in the public domain.
19. Subject to further minor amendments noted by Members, the Committee agreed the statement.
bump for 2006..
although I don’t like to say this I fear that these sorts of incidents will be come more common on our scene – in part due to the increasing conflicts with law enforcement but ironically in the UK also because we are being pushed into getting licensed/legal.
There will probably be competition for a limited amount of venues – not everyone will play fair.
the problem at the moment is that a CS attack is very effective at breaking up a gathering and creating FUD – after all thats what it was invented for! its a good way of frightening punters away from rivals and common on the commercial scene
not only this it creates a cost of a few grand to the local NHS (dealing with 20+ patients presenting to ED all at once) so goes as a big black mark against the organisers at licensing committee – worse stlll authorities tend to blame the victim in these cases – at least one venue has lost a licence because it happened twice…
surely not right tho? if someone got gassed and robbed they are not to blame so why should managers/promoters be blamed?
when i lived in France there was a high level of extreme street violence in the city i lived in, involving knives, metal bars, guns, even a rocket launcher discharged into a petrol station (!) on one occasion
after being hospitalized for not having a cigarette to give away, i started to carry a spray of CS gel (as opposed to gas, which disperses and often hurts the person discharging it as well an anyone else in the vicinity).
luckily i never had to use it and after a while a female friend took it from my house… she thought she’d see what it was like :wtf: and discarged it in her house… it kept spraying until it was empty… all over her… 😥 put simply, it’s nasty stuff, especially in the hands of idoits (or people with violent tendancies)
worst part of this is one reason given for permitting citizens to have this stuff (classed as a firearm in Britain) is ostensibly to protect women from rape or sexual assault….
I can understand her making this mistake as the canisters issued to cops only usually discharge gas for as long as the plunger is held down…. but surely the container should have been correctly marked showing its action, or whoever sells these things should make people aware of its use?
BTW thanks for pointing this out!
I bet a lot of people (particularly those who live in Britain or other countries where this stuff is illegal) would not have known about this – I could just imagine one of the “wannabe hard men ravers” from the UK attending a Euro-tek, buying a canister to show off and saying “i’ll only spray a little bit” :crazy_diz:sick::yakk::toxic::ar15::cry:
DID YOU KNOW THERES A SPRAY THAT IS LEGAL TO USE IN THE UK?
AS IT IS APPROVED BY THE HOME OFFICE
THIS SPRAY IS CALLED FARB-GEL (TEMEPORARY IDENTIFICATION WITNESS) THIS SPRAY WHEN SPRAYED AT A ATTACKER WILL LEAVE THE ATTACKERS FACE COVERED IN A THICK GEL SUBSTANCE AS WELL AS PUTTING 75lb OF PRESSURE ON THE ATTACKERS FACE WHEN THE ATTCKER WASHES THERE FACE IT WILL LEAVE A RED DYE WHICH WILL STAY THERE FOR SEVEN DAYS TO HELP THE POLICE FIND THE ATTACKER.
IT DOES NOT HURT IN ANY WAY AND IS USED ONLY IN A ATTACK OR EMERGENCY SITUATION IF IT IS USED IN NO ATTACK YOU COULD BE ARRESTED FOR ASSAULT
Heres what not to do and what to do if its used on you.
DO NOT rince your eyes or face with water it will only make the smarting ten times worse.
DO get as mush air as posible to the afected area this will evaporate the gas and also help you breath.
DO rince your hands with soap and water as there may be traces on your hands and you could later recontaminate your eyes or even your private parts when going for a piss (ive done that):hopeless:
Most of the sprays etc (ie CN, CS, and oleoresin based sprays) are variations on the “pepper” type lacrimator/irritant – meaning they are oil based to begin with, and the oil is a volatile irritant type that will cause tears (hence lacrimator).
Best way to treat these (as noted above) is not water at all (oil and water are insoluble, and the water will do little, if anything.)
Something like milk would probably be favourite, or some form of mild alcohol mixture, to neutralise (in the case of milk), or try and wash off (in the case of alcohol – a solvent). These are after the obvious steps of removing the person from the contamination, and removing any source of contamination on their body (ie clothing that has been covered).
The milk solution requires bathing as much of the affected areas as possible, for as long as possible (especially the eyes, nose, and any other sensitive areas – ie armpits, neck etc that have been heavily affected.)
The alcohol conversly should be used as a wash (alcohol is acidic like the irritants, and will hurt if applied extensively). The aim is to wash off the oils, so the tissue areas can be effectively neutralised afterwards (milk contains oils, and will neutralise without the stripping needed, as the oils will drop into the solution). Too strong a mixture of alcohol will do more harm than good – weak means something the strength of a watery wine at most. Dousing someone in vodka is counterproductive….:groucho:
Soaps, or alkali solutions should be used with caution, as they are easy to do more harm than good with . Alkali’s will change the oils to soap, and neutralise the acidity of the sprays, but they are as harmful (if not more so) to sensitive tissues than acids…
All of this is after the normal “first aid” needed on a victim of any violent trauma – ie, checking they are breathing OK (oleoresins are a common allergy source, and most spray types have a secondary effect on the respiratory/cardiovascular system – especially the respiratory tract which can become inflamed, and close up), so after removing the source of the irritant, ensure the person is breathing OK, and they aren’t going to need anything outrageous, like an imminent injection of adrenaline into the heart due to allergies.
Remember, they will almost certainly be suffering from shock, so will be a bit white, and breathing fast/shallow anyway.
Then after having neutralised/washed off the spray, make sure they get to a hospital to get checked over, and make sure no permanent damage is done to their eyes (large exposure to sprays can cause all sorts of things, like sloughing of the conjunctiva – the membrane covering and protecting most of the eye, keratitis [or inflammation of the cornea], and in extreme cases the loss of the ability to close the eyelids [neuroparalytic keratopathy]). A hospital can also make effectively with traumatic shock etc, and any other complications….
Only other thing I can think of that might help is some form of moisturiser after the gunk is washed off properly (esp if done with alcohol). Something like lip salve, and a moisturising face cream, to try and restore some of the stripped oils and natural moisture.
Burn creams are good for this too (as they are designed to soothe the skin, while keeping it moist and supple), and the effects of pepper/oleoresin type sprays are essentially tissue burns…..
Hope that’s useful, and makes some sense….:crazy_diz:crazy_diz
Oh, and as a PS – when you’re done with all this, find the person who pepper sprayed you, and ram it where the sun doesn’t shine (after puncturing the canister of course)…:groucho::groucho::groucho:
as a health care priofession The best advise if spryed with any form of irritant is as follows
do not rub the area
do not try and add other chemiclas to the affected area
do get plenty of fresh air
do seek medical adivce
do call 999 if any breathing problems
What to do when sprayed
If you are in the line of spray move backwards out of range rather than sideways where the spray may still be able to reach you. If you are in a building move outside. Your eyesight may become blurred and it is easy to lose awareness of what is going on. Do not run blindly into the arms of the person spaying the gas , or worse still, into traffic. Act calmly and stay aware of your surroundings whilst moving to a safe area.
If possible stand upwind of where the spraying happened and expose the affected part of your body to the wind. This will help disperse the gas quickly.
Flush the affected area of the body with the solution mentioned earlier – or just water if this is not available. Do not touch it as you will spread the chemical around and rub it into your pores. It may be possible that you can rejoin the action right away, as small amounts should only affect you for a few minutes.
When possible have a cold/lukewarm shower (hot water opens the pores and allows gas particles in) as soon as possible. Showers flush the chemical away whilst a bath will just re-distribute it.
After the action you should hang your clothes up in a well ventilated area to disperse the last remnants of the gas. When they have hung for a day or so wash them twice – firstly in cold and then secondly in hot water – and they’ll be okay to wear again. CS Gas is fat soluble so never coat your skin in petroleum jelly or similar substances for protection as some people have tried. When sprayed do not treat the area with any cream, jelly or ointment, unless advised to by someone who knows what they are talking about. The best treatments are air, cold water and time.
as a health care priofession The best advise if spryed with any form of irritant is as follows
do not rub the area
do not try and add other chemiclas to the affected area
do get plenty of fresh air
do seek medical adivce
do call 999 if any breathing problems
What to do when sprayed
If you are in the line of spray move backwards out of range rather than sideways where the spray may still be able to reach you. If you are in a building move outside. Your eyesight may become blurred and it is easy to lose awareness of what is going on. Do not run blindly into the arms of the person spaying the gas , or worse still, into traffic. Act calmly and stay aware of your surroundings whilst moving to a safe area.
If possible stand upwind of where the spraying happened and expose the affected part of your body to the wind. This will help disperse the gas quickly.
Flush the affected area of the body with the solution mentioned earlier – or just water if this is not available. Do not touch it as you will spread the chemical around and rub it into your pores. It may be possible that you can rejoin the action right away, as small amounts should only affect you for a few minutes.
When possible have a cold/lukewarm shower (hot water opens the pores and allows gas particles in) as soon as possible. Showers flush the chemical away whilst a bath will just re-distribute it.
After the action you should hang your clothes up in a well ventilated area to disperse the last remnants of the gas. When they have hung for a day or so wash them twice – firstly in cold and then secondly in hot water – and they’ll be okay to wear again. CS Gas is fat soluble so never coat your skin in petroleum jelly or similar substances for protection as some people have tried. When sprayed do not treat the area with any cream, jelly or ointment, unless advised to by someone who knows what they are talking about. The best treatments are air, cold water and time.
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Forums › Rave › Free Parties & Teknivals › First Aid and Treatment : GAS! GAS! GAS! Dealing with irritant sprays
