One either for those who are a bit younger or the older people here with kids at school..
I left high school/sixth form in 1990 and I have no idea really what its like in education today, but I get the impression that even in junior school that there is now far less creative stuff being done like art/music (despite advances in technology) and more emphasis on exams….
it was just starting to go like this in the early 90s… but has it got worse?
I left high school/sixth form in 1990 and I have no idea really what its like in education today, but I get the impression that even in junior school that there is now far less creative stuff being done like art/music (despite advances in technology) and more emphasis on exams….
it was just starting to go like this in the early 90s… but has it got worse?
i am working with year one and foundation children atm and cos I have an art background (diploma in fine art) the staff like me to do creative stuff with the children. I find that there is more emphasis on numeracy and literacy than art. I think this is a shame cos the children love expressing themselves creatively and i like to do different artistic stuff with them like painting and sculpture. Some of the children are autistic or have special educational needs so doing this stuff opens them up and they become more confident.
When I was at school, I loved all the creative art stuff but the teachers at school were a bit restrictive as to what art work u did which put me off. At college we were encouraged to open up and express ourselves, so then the creativity flowed…at Uni I was disappointed with the fine art course, the tutors were very critical and not helpful at all. There was a lot of emphasis on the conceptual side of art than making the art so my creativity just stopped. I have found more inspiration doing my community art work in Sheffield and I am producing more artwork than I did at Uni.
:bounce_fl:bounce_fl
I wasn’t sure what “year one” was so went to look it up on wikipedia; and have only just learned that there are competitive exams in infant school :yakk::yakk: in England… (OK the kids don’t compete against each other but the schools compete against each other in the league tables so the pressure trickles down)
I’m glad I don’t have kids, couldn’t put them through such an ordeal…
when did they start doing all this?
I’m glad I don’t have kids, couldn’t put them through such an ordeal…
when did they start doing all this?
no idea….crazy stuff tho, not fair to put pressure on children at all
i visit students at the local post-16 college and their ‘centre for creative industries’ blows me away
if there had been half the creative / artistic courses available when i was 16 i would have staying in education
i think there’s also more flexibility in the types of qualifications you can take now… international baccaluareate, NVQs, etc. it was just A-levels when i was 16 (showing my age)
i don’t like the early years curriculum idea though. in sweden, for example, kids just play until they are 7. by 9 they have caught up with english kids academically. there’s no need to be starting so early as we do in this country
if there had been half the creative / artistic courses available when i was 16 i would have staying in education
me too…
I’d agree with that for post-16 education (TBH I should have titled this thread better as I was thinking more of compulsory education) – although there’s that harsh reality that there are fewer and fewer creative jobs (by that I mean real jobs rather than work experience)
Some work colleagues in the office have media/creative qualifications but they just do office work (although maybe the odd presentation where they get to use their skills) – although I would say their qualifications are still useful as it helps with writing documents/business letters….
true – and during constructive play they are probably going to want to learn to read, write and count anyway, so they can make use of the more high tech toys and computers…
post 16 creative subjects and facilities, equipment etc. is pretty good, the college i’m going to next year has pretty much everything. our secondary school isn’t too bad, but only because it’s a “school of performing arts”. what i don’t get is how colleges can accommodate for both academic and creative subjects where schools can’t, this is the case with the two i have mentioned. they are both state school/college although the college may get lottery funding.
as far as school goes, there is so much emphasis placed on exams, it’s shit. for example, take the subject history. we don’t learn about various topics which affect us and we should know about – we learn about the three we have exams on, we learn them and then learn again, anything involved with these topics not in the exam, doesn’t even get mentioned. in terms of my opinions and general knowledge, most of my mates and meself have learnt a helluva lot more out of school.
we are also discouraged from taking creative subjects, on the grounds of “you are quite clever”. the school tries to portray arts of any kind as subjects that less intelligent people take, which is bollocks. it works in most cases too, many people don’t take them because of this, even if it isn’t true in the slightest, it’s essentially what we get told. i picked music personally, because i was a stubborn git and told them i wouldn’t change to an academic subject, but the pressure is on and always is.
as for infant exams, my little cousin was in tears because she was so worried about her exam the next day. she was 6. fucking ridiculous.
I don’t know if this prejudice still exists but some employers still value those who have had “traditional” sixth form education (year 12?, still don’t understand those new year numbers :you_crazy) over those who have been to FE college because they think schools have more “conventional discipline”.
A lot of school is simply about obeying authority rather than using your mind..
when I was at high school, teachers all went on strike because their goodwill (doing extra stuff after school, and unpaid overtime) was being exploited. Sometimes lessons were cancelled but unless you had a note form your parents saying you could go home you had to stay in some part of the school for safety reasons.
Some of the more friendly teachers would let me and some friends in the computer room (we did have computers in 1986 :laugh_at:, but there wasn’t this Windows stuff and you had to write your own programs!).
Its because of this that today I am an IT professional, not because of any formal study (I lasted only 2 years in uni before leaving).
#
FFS! this still goes on, an entire generation later? :rant:
this is horrendous, but our governments are trying to make Britain compete with the former Asian colonies where kids always had this kind of pressure.
We are introducing something called “kiasuism” (an intense form of ruthless competition in all walks of society) that exists in places like Singapore and Malaysia.
These two countries are admittedly economically and politically successful (Singapore exerts amazing economic power over SE Asia despite being tiny in geographic size) – but they also have an extremely high level of child and teenage mental health problems. (This isn’t as widely known due to effective media censorship in those nations)
The harsh fact is that many kids are simply written off as there are a lot of babies born each year to replace the ones that fail.
Teenage suicide rates are very high in these countries, although the pain may be “offset” by the fact that there’s still work in factories (many of our computer components are made in these countries) although its long hours and badly paid.
Sometimes I wonder if that is why young mums (in Britain) are “encouraged” (by benefits) to have so many children so young, it is literally as if they are being farmed like livestock :hopeless: and those who fail eventually end up eliminating each other in the gang fighting of inner cities (6 teenagers stabbed in London last week, and probably a similar number in Northern cities)
I think instead we should move to the system in some European countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden kids – where only start infant school at age 6 or 7 and there are far less exams, yet the people from there are very intelligent and want to learn and improve their knowledge
For instance Angel and !sinner69! post here often with lots of good info, yet English is not their first language – whilst I would have no chance trying to post on a Danish forum….. also when I used to supply equipment for Danmarks Radio (like the BBC in Denmark) they always had some new idea where they were trying to make their technical quality of programmes better…
A lot of school is simply about obeying authority rather than using your mind..
I don’t think the prejudice is very strong any more, although it could – just neither me nor anyone I know have experienced it, A-levels still count no matter where they are from I think. Personally I’m not taking A-levels I’m taking a National Diploma, a much more practical course with no exams. I think this is a good step to be honest, as these are accepted by most universities in relative terms to UCAS points (ND’s work out at 3 A-levels). ND in Print Based Media for me, CD covers and all that, graphic design too. Not conventional but that’s what I like about colleges, they run courses to suit everyone whereas schools simply won’t.
School is about obeying authority, definitely. Also, a lot of pressure is on school to take an authoritarian approach to schooling. For example, my school has it’s moments, but isn’t too bad in general – yet a recent grant has been spent on a full fence system – completely locked now, no way of getting out, the bugger is spiked at the top! It goes round the whole school, and is locked from 9 till half 3. Camera’s in 75% of classrooms and in all corridors and open yards. School should be about getting away with some stuff, but it’s ridiculous. It is like a school version of a prison, because effectively your movements are being monitored and picked up every second.
Although the reason this happened was probably a result of students, there was a mass “riot” for example, with the Iraq war used as an excuse. A few cars got torched, it made national news. Also, 6 attempts at arson in one year, doesn’t help our cause. But it’s a shame that we all have to put up with a system of control because of this. It doesn’t tackle the problem – it is out to catch crime, not prevent it, the wrong way to do things I reckon.
Some of the more friendly teachers would let me and some friends in the computer room (we did have computers in 1986 :laugh_at:, but there wasn’t this Windows stuff and you had to write your own programs!).
Its because of this that today I am an IT professional, not because of any formal study (I lasted only 2 years in uni before leaving).
Teachers can’t do that sorta thing now from my experience because it’s against their rules, and they do face a lotta shit from the “top” if they do. Even something so small, would now be picked up on. If anyone was in the computer room unsupervised, whichever teacher unlocked it would be in for a huge bollocking, and so no teacher is willing to do things like this! Well, very few – many have and are feeling the response.
Yeah it’s ridiculous. Is it supported by the government I wonder… trying to stamp the creative, more “free thinking” parts of people, making us all go into a nice job, nice desk, nice money to fall into the capitalist society. I dunno, but it certainly happens and it’s really shit to see a kid really talented in an art picking some subject that he/she hates just because it is “academic”. My little brother is choosing subjects at the moment, and there are no arts at all in his choices, because of pressure from the school, ‘cos he’s a bright lad.
We are introducing something called “kiasuism” (an intense form of ruthless competition in all walks of society) that exists in places like Singapore and Malaysia.
These two countries are admittedly economically and politically successful (Singapore exerts amazing economic power over SE Asia despite being tiny in geographic size) – but they also have an extremely high level of child and teenage mental health problems. (This isn’t as widely known due to effective media censorship in those nations)
The harsh fact is that many kids are simply written off as there are a lot of babies born each year to replace the ones that fail.
Teenage suicide rates are very high in these countries, although the pain may be “offset” by the fact that there’s still work in factories (many of our computer components are made in these countries) although its long hours and badly paid.
Sometimes I wonder if that is why young mums (in Britain) are “encouraged” (by benefits) to have so many children so young, it is literally as if they are being farmed like livestock :hopeless: and those who fail eventually end up eliminating each other in the gang fighting of inner cities (6 teenagers stabbed in London last week, and probably a similar number in Northern cities)
I think instead we should move to the system in some European countries like Denmark, Norway and Sweden kids – where only start infant school at age 6 or 7 and there are far less exams, yet the people from there are very intelligent and want to learn and improve their knowledge
For instance Angel and !sinner69! post here often with lots of good info, yet English is not their first language – whilst I would have no chance trying to post on a Danish forum….. also when I used to supply equipment for Danmarks Radio (like the BBC in Denmark) they always had some new idea where they were trying to make their technical quality of programmes better…
I agree completely, and I think we may be pushing that system into place, and it’s happening at a fast pace than many woulda thought! For example, many kids who aren’t academically intelligent, are pushed out of school onto “vocational” courses to nearby colleges, whether they want this or not. I have a couple of mates who are nearly being blackmailed – they have slightly bad behaviour, they are good lads but aren’t too bright, and are being told that it’s expulsion or vocational courses. Personally I doubt they could be expelled at all, nowhere near bad enough, but this is what they are being told, and it annoys the fuck outta me.
Shit that’s the most writing I’ve done in ages :laugh_at:
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