Just ran to get a kebab and opened the Sun newspaper, another bullshit article on drugs filled with mistruths.
and with the photo of a cocky as shot reporter looking smug, named and making a career.
So on accout of a recent thread about actually helping our cause, have just thought, as papers and journalists, and politicians, sensationalise stories to fight their cause, could a small, intelligent and like-minded group of us counter it using the same tools? Only name and shame the sloppy journalists and liars?
So the basic working plan is a website, with a news story linked, the facts listed, journalist named. A team of volunteers to get the facts, call the paper and request the source of information, call A&E or whatever is needed and check the figures and outcome, show the lies against individuals names. Build a database which is searchable against individuals names?
Any thoughts? Do you think that if written and presented well and professionally, withnthe backing of David Nutt and the opposing counter-ACMD who can lend medical advice where necessary.
Can we do the same with the growing issues of parties and festivals being shut down? Name police officers who waited to the last second before requesting info that stopped an event? Make a formal complaint to his superiors then to IPCC and civil proceedings as required? If so, can a mod/admin copy this to a relevant forum and or/notify people likely to help. Can we actually turn this tide by helping ourselves?
Any thoughts? Anyone fancy at least giving it a go?
I think its the downside of a free press, The Sun is particularly bad though it does have to be said, more like a cheap women’s celebratory mag than a paper. Very scary its the most popular paper, says a lot about our society I fear.
I dont think the police are doing anything illegal when they stop festivals sadly. But I am no lawyer.
it is as 1984 said the cost of a free press. there are already plenty of better papers, such as the “left wing” ones like the Guardian as well as scientific publications like the BMJ often show a much more balanced and pragmatic view towards drugs.
there is nothing which can be done until the UN / wider popular consesus decides for itself that recreational drug use is not harmful.
TBH do I think the papers exaggerate the risk of instant death from drug use, yet play down the wider bad news of the amount of people who suffer chronic mental health issues even from long term use of party drugs as opposed to worse addictive substances (including alcohol).
In my wider community those who are non drug users or support control of drug use (including alcohol), they do not do so because “they read it in the papers” or even due to faith groups. They are against excessive drug/alcohol use as they or their families have been personally affected by the impulsive actions of substance users. people aren’t as stupid as they are made out to be, the media has less relevance than it may seem.
As for festivals being stopped, in recent times the cops are simply erring on the side of saving public money for the greater good on the advice of the NHS due to having to increasingly admit people to hospitals after binge drink/drug use – as well as real concerns over anti-social behaviour and violence backed up by evidence. the same applies to where there is zero tolerance against illegal raves (which were hitherto tolerated for many years).
the increasing input of the NHS into licensing policy isn’t as well known outside those who research event management, so unpopular decisions are often blamed solely on the Police.
The Sun is a fcuking shit paper.
@GiantMidget 392679 wrote:
The Sun is a fcuking shit paper.
+1
The people who write these paper put whatever will sell them in it. Its all about the money……
As for johns idea i like it alot, im more than willing to atleast try it (im on summer hoildays and got alot of free time).
you will also have to be prepared for counter-attacks from the anti-drugs movement, including them scrutinising the lifestyles and activities of those who criticises them. Normal journalists do this to each other all the time, as do cops and politicians, and there are already “concerned citizens” poking and prying into others activities.
Those who are prepared to judge others must be prepared to be judged themselves.
A small amount of personal drug use is hardly a crime, but people exposing journalists, cops and civil servants for lying will have to be careful they cannot be exposed themselves for any other serious moral transgressions such as theft, fraud, violence, infidelity etc.
your enemy has friends as well who will back them up….
with regard to crime reporting – most reports on drugs and overdoses come under this category, even the most shit media outlets do not fabricate the details of victims/casualties – they will get in trouble for doing so. There are also some strict privacy rules the Police and NHS have about reporting the details of crime victims and hospital patients. by and large, the media play by these rules if begrudgingly. Even in the days when they used radio scanners to stalk the emergency services at incidents this wasn’t used to form the main bit of the story, and isn’t possible now anyway with the Airwave radios.
What the media do often do is speculate on as actual causes of death and overplay the risks of fatal overdoses – OTOH in some cases HM Coroner deliberately spins verdicts out of sympathy to the family – if they can say that someone was “ill” and that this illness was the main cause of their death rather than drugs (as opposed to it being 50% of each) they will do so to try and keep someones good name.
hence a lot of narrative/open verdicts which leave the media able to increase the speculation and anti-drugs publicity.
This Tamil dude who was protesting against events in Sri Lanka (with good reason) has successfully claimed £80 000 damages from the Press as they argued he faked a fast/hunger strike. The cops even backed him up by categorically stating the covert police operation the media claimed didn’t even exist, and even the protestor said they should have checked with the old Bill!
Daily Mail and Sun pay out to Tamil hunger striker | Media | guardian.co.uk
However, even in this case, the apologies are begrudging.
in both cases the papers have even used their repeated their disagreement with the protest and claimed they got their nfo “in good faith”.
And this man is from a hard working ethnic minority community who aren’t known for domestic religious extremism in the UK, nor large scale involvement in criminality outside their own community. if someone who is not just tolerant of drug use but indulges in it and hedonistic lifestyles wins a Court case against the media, journos are going to stalk them for the rest of their days. After all they don’t give up on the celebs when they get sued, the cost of the settlements is figured in to the media organisations accounts as “contingency funds”.
id help out in doing research if i can, got fair bit of time on my hands at the moment…
I think it’s a great idea. The public attitudes to drugs isn’t going to change as long as the scaremongering media is the only voice.
However you might find it hard to find real mistruths in the media as usually the problem is not the facts but the inflammatory language.
There are already websites like The enemies of reason which write about scaremongering bullshit it might be worth getting in contact with them and asking if they’d be prepared to do a sub-section relating to drugs, or set up your own blog and do some cross promotion. I’d be happy to get involved.
be good to to talk about what actually happens at protests and free partys as well re:if it kicks off and why and the reasons for stuff being confiscated and antagonising actions from the cops.. not just what the police say happens…
we could do with open and honest dialogue about exactly how many incidents occur at licensed music festivals as well as other premises associated with the night-time economy from both the Police and NHS. These incidents would be
– drug overdoses
– alcohol related crimes
– incidents of violence
they can be obtiained via a FOI request to the local constabulary and the Ambulance service and there is no need to breach confidentiality rules as its the incident count rather than full details which are being requested.
this, alongside with numbers of how many people attend the events either festivals or “dance music friendly” venues (which Councils keep track of) give a framework of data to work out how “safe” they actually are.
Drugs or alcohol in themselves are not a problem – its the behaviour of users which is the real issue.
@General Lighting 392807 wrote:
we could do with open and honest dialogue about exactly how many incidents occur at licensed music festivals as well as other premises associated with the night-time economy from both the Police and NHS. These incidents would be
– drug overdoses
– alcohol related crimes
– incidents of violencethey can be obtiained via a FOI request to the local constabulary and the Ambulance service and there is no need to breach confidentiality rules as its the incident count rather than full details which are being requested.
this, alongside with numbers of how many people attend the events either festivals or “dance music friendly” venues (which Councils keep track of) give a framework of data to work out how “safe” they actually are.
Drugs or alcohol in themselves are not a problem – its the behaviour of users which is the real issue.
also how many incidents happen at so many events that the police/council have no problem with letting carry on compared to some dance/alertnative orientated events which seem to be picked on for whatever reason. wonder how many indidents happewn at the suffolk show for instance?
@process 392819 wrote:
also how many incidents happen at so many events that the police/council have no problem with letting carry on compared to some dance/alertnative orientated events which seem to be picked on for whatever reason. wonder how many indidents happewn at the suffolk show for instance?
yep thats what I meant – every event what needs a PEL of some sort to be brought before public scrutiny.
haven’t been able to find any arrest at Suffolk show but 7 at Fram Gala in 2006, in Norfolk there was the affray at the tractor festival I put in the jokes section!
To be fair incidents at the mainstream events do get reported, such as the four arrests at the Pink concert at Portman Road (which also caused appalling traffic jams, worse than the footy as it appears the resources required were underestimated).
with regard to protests and raves there’s a a wildly differeing amount of wider public support for these minority activities. however even the Met now admit their public order policing is a shambles due to complacency and a lack of training, I’ve had it confirmed from several independent sources that the Eastern constabularies are now teaching them how to deal with large hostile crowds due to their successes in closing down illegal raves.
also realistically there isn’t a country in the world where the Police are going to allow themselves to be defied once they are in “public order formation” (riot squad). what should be debated instead is the circumstances and trigger points where the cops change from being normal “bobbies” into the formations to clear an area.
ironically, there have been many protests in EA which have gone ahead without any major trouble or injuries whatsoever, from the usual anti-war/anti-nuke ones at airbases and Sizewell, to more localised ones against post office closures outside Stowmarket and an animal sanctuary being closed at Felixstowe. However in London its actually hard to tell exactly what the protesters want, and a lot of their campaigns are duplicated by more non-confrontational postitive things which the Transition movement are already carrying out!
with raves the issues are more complex. There is a wider popular consensus that its perfectly acceptable to use reasonable force to defend private property – even amongst those with relatively progressive political views. most unlicensed raves held today are attended by (and organised by) hedonistic youth who simply do not want the burden of paperwork associated with putting on a licensed event, rather than people with a long term desire to make society a better place…
in the case of many rural raves on private farms the counterargument (which is not without truth) is that the farmers are often elderly folk who are simply too intimidated to challenge the organisers. yes they often have younger relatives (sons in particularly) who are not so intimidated, but this leads to a increasing spiral of vigilanté incidents and reprisals which could erupt into long term feuds.
Hence Police are called to try and discourage this activity, with them using force to clear the invaded farms and/or confiscating sound equipment to create a financial loss to the organisers – in the hope they will eventually realise it works out cheaper to get permission and a license! If they remain stubborn and sell drugs to replace the confiscated kit this is a serious criminal offence in itself and the cops will deploy anti-organised crime resources.
its a less clear cut situation with places like Thetford and Rendlesham Forest, much of which is owned by the citizen taxpayers of the UK and EU. I do think there is a case for permitting well-run events there on condition there isn’t excessive environmental damage, but there are still other short and long term burdens on society caused by the night time economy (legal or unlicensed), an increasing amount of incidents at these events (fights/fires/RTCs), the risk that if events were permitted that organisers from other areas would try to muscle in (unless other tolerance zones were set up at the same time), and in any case its unfair to expect non-participants to subsidise others fun…
0
Voices
12
Replies
Tags
This topic has no tags