The “zero tolerance” and NPS bans was supposed to stop things like this – though of course even if it has reduced drug use amongst many young people there remains a core or more desparate and likely addicted user/dealer types who will continue to deal drugs and resort to violence when things go wrong.
At least the offenders unfamiliarity with the road layouts and the sheer amount of traffic jams here seems to have ensured that they all quickly got nicked before they could get away :laugh_at:
Four arrested after teenager shot in Siloam Place near Ipswich waterfront – News – Ipswich Star
Ho the hell did they only get charged with GBH lol.
Does seem surprising but attack has hallmarks more of a punishment shooting than assassination, it would be harder to prove an attempt murder charge with only a single round discharged at the extremities rather than the torso – if suspects went to all the trouble to use a firearm in a country where they are strictly controlled and had opportunity to get to the target at close range they could easily have shot them dead.
The injuries also seem more consistent with the use of a “rebore” (a starting pistol using home built rounds, or bored out to chamber .22 LR).
Also the cops don’t have proof as yet of which one out of the 4 was responsible for shooting..
Looks like they didn’t recover the firearm (as merely having one is a serious offence in itself) which is a bit more worrying as someone else could easily still have posession of it. Thankfully I live completely the other side of town to where all this is happening.
Dude, Ipswich is like 130 000 people a city of around 250 000 people in America can have well upwards of a dozen gun related murders and perhaps as many as 50 shootings in a year.
Although UK gun control laws are some of the strictest in Europe, firearms ownership is more common than many folk realise although occurs more in the rural areas amongst older middle class people (who often quite regularly shoot up their families and business rivals with shotguns, rifles etc as these and ammunition are still more readily available).
Probably a miniscule amount compared to USA but still not an insignificant number of casualties. There have been about 10-15 or so such incidents in the last decade across England. About half of these have been in semi rural areas around East Anglia and SE England.
Thankfully mass shootings of strangers are very rare but people attacking folk they know is not as much.
Pistols were in fact only totally banned here in the 2000s following the fallout when a pedo who was about to be busted shot up an entire primary (elementary) school in Scotland in 1990s using 4 legitimately purchased guns (although bought via defrauding credit card firms), and then shot himself – there were allegations that he had “friends in high places” within the cops who turned a blind eye to him and he struck back when the cops finally decided to prosecute him for other matters.
Closer to this area a rightwing activist was also caught with a whole arsenal of weapons (the cops said it could have armed “4 coachloads of terrorists”) which were only discovered after he started slapping his partner about and the cops got called. He was however terminally ill and died in prison before seeing a Court and explaining his actions although his firearms dealer (a posh chap from a rich area) got a prison sentence.
There wasn’t any real evidence he was going to use the guns himself for anything bad, but still a massive security risk with what he had (the cops and MOD specialist units spent 4 days recovering all the items from various stashes) especially had it fallen into the wrong hands.
Linked to this, the UK supplies guns via private dealers to all sorts of dodgy foreigners too in countries with bad human rights records (the same countries where we claim terrorists come from) and has done so for centuries, in spite of it being illegal for most people to own the same weapons!
There are more double standards here even in current British law, another reason the suspects only got done for GBH is that it leaves in supposed loopholes for more afflluent folk to blast burglars with their weapons (although they shouldn’t normally keep them in their bedrooms anyway) and of course a middle class white guy in a rural area is more likely to get away with keeping / selling guns (even if he eventually ends up using them in crime or they fall into the wrong hands) than anyone from a minority ethnic group or urban area would.
@General Lighting 987045 wrote:
Does seem surprising but attack has hallmarks more of a punishment shooting than assassination,
Has the hallmarks of a shit shot. The rest of your arguments on’t seem convincing personally. You said they shot at an extremity but if I remember the wound was in the shoulder, a few centimeters away it could have gone through the neck, heart or lungs.
@General Lighting 987048 wrote:
Although UK gun control laws are some of the strictest in Europe, firearms ownership is more common than many folk realise although occurs more in the rural areas amongst older middle class people (who often quite regularly shoot up their families and business rivals with shotguns, rifles etc as these and ammunition are still more readily available).
Probably a miniscule amount compared to USA but still not an insignificant number of casualties. There have been about 10-15 or so such incidents in the last decade across England. About half of these have been in semi rural areas around East Anglia and SE England.
Thankfully mass shootings of strangers are very rare but people attacking folk they know is not as much.
Pistols were in fact only totally banned here in the 2000s following the fallout when a pedo who was about to be busted shot up an entire primary (elementary) school in Scotland in 1990s using 4 legitimately purchased guns (although bought via defrauding credit card firms), and then shot himself – there were allegations that he had “friends in high places” within the cops who turned a blind eye to him and he struck back when the cops finally decided to prosecute him for other matters.
Closer to this area a rightwing activist was also caught with a whole arsenal of weapons (the cops said it could have armed “4 coachloads of terrorists”) which were only discovered after he started slapping his partner about and the cops got called. He was however terminally ill and died in prison before seeing a Court and explaining his actions although his firearms dealer (a posh chap from a rich area) got a prison sentence.
There wasn’t any real evidence he was going to use the guns himself for anything bad, but still a massive security risk with what he had (the cops and MOD specialist units spent 4 days recovering all the items from various stashes) especially had it fallen into the wrong hands.
Linked to this, the UK supplies guns via private dealers to all sorts of dodgy foreigners too in countries with bad human rights records (the same countries where we claim terrorists come from) and has done so for centuries, in spite of it being illegal for most people to own the same weapons!
There are more double standards here even in current British law, another reason the suspects only got done for GBH is that it leaves in supposed loopholes for more afflluent folk to blast burglars with their weapons (although they shouldn’t normally keep them in their bedrooms anyway) and of course a middle class white guy in a rural area is more likely to get away with keeping / selling guns (even if he eventually ends up using them in crime or they fall into the wrong hands) than anyone from a minority ethnic group or urban area would.
That was an ecellent post that raised many interesting points.
Owning firearms in this country is really not that hard, just apply for a license, go through some background checks and buy as much well machined death as you like. i had a neighbour who went shooting regularly and an instructor at a place I was an apprentice at many many years ago who was a member of the local gun club who somehow was allowed to hold more ammunition than the gun club was (that got mentioned when he was talk8ing about a schedyled police check on what he possessed).
I had no idea that pistols were only banned in the 2000s but do remember th incident you refer to but you are right, very few shootings occur that involve the owner of the weapon and someone not close to them but even then they seem to be prosecuted heavily. The prosecution of Tony Martin, the farmer who was constantly burgled by gypsies who shot Fred Barras with a shotgun while he was an intruder in his home is one that springs to mind but as said, shootings are very uncommon in this country.
@tryptameanie 987067 wrote:
Has the hallmarks of a shit shot. The rest of your arguments on’t seem convincing personally. You said they shot at an extremity but if I remember the wound was in the shoulder, a few centimeters away it could have gone through the neck, heart or lungs.
it does seem like a “lenient” charge but these are exactly the same arguments that defence lawyers are going to use in a case that is very likely going to end up in Crown Court and there isn’t as yet as much evidence so I can see why the cops/CPS don’t want to risk going for an attempt murder charge which could even get thrown out on a technicality.
Even so-called “hoodrats” often turn out to be “nice middle class kids” whose parents can afford top QCs. I’ve seen cases like this happen over the years involving intelligent young people you wouldn’t even think would go to such extremes.
For attempt murder / murder cases there has to be definite premeditated intent to kill proven in Court.
Had the shooting indeed resulted in a fatality the charge could either be manslaughter or attempt murder (depending on the circumstances); although the higher end of manslaughter tariffs can have longer sentences than some murder cases.
This case isn’t as clear as something like the Nazi sympathiser who assassinated a politician and got a (comparatively rare) whole life sentence, where the evidence clearly showed he had been planning something like this for as long as 25 years, or the worryingly regular cases in rural areas where someone blasts another with a shotgun at close range.
There are multiple factors at play here – even with our strong gun controls there remains some ambiguity about firearms laws and enforcement – most likely due to rightwingers who wish the UK to either emulate USA or go back to early/mid 20th century when it was once acceptable to carry a firearm for self-defence, and there are still a fair few people who harbour such views around. There is also ambiguity about the acceptable level of violence in our society, especially amongst young men.
Another is society has declined to the point that young people even want to risk 20+ years in prison for shooting someone over what often turns out to be a relatively small amount of drugs/money. Although this is precisely what is likely to happen when USA inspired gun culture and “little Englander/plastic gangster/footy hooligan” mentality merge with one another.
People do some strange shit when firearms are readily available, I remember a kid a bit older than me making the news for killing his parents with a shotgun when they wouldn’t let him have an after prom party. Guests at this party noticed a strange smell caused by the decomposing bodies… WTF, he was from a very high socio-economic class, and I’ve met wealthy kids who were selling hard drugs just because.
Different continents, but you have to be a bit more arsed to kill someone without a gun, that is the common thread I see in a lot of shootings.
I live in a nice town, but in one of the rougher areas two teens were shot over a botched drug deal for perhaps 2oz of marijuana, so like $600 worth of green and I think four people caught charges out of that and they’re all relatively young, so other people will be paying to keep them locked up for far in excess of the amount of marijuana they were killing over.
Another young adult male about a year ago, whose older brother I did sports with growing up, shot a little girl in the head outside a housing project over some gang beef. He wasn’t trying to kill her specifically, but if you start spraying bullets willy nilly that is often the end result.
Probably put enough identifying details of the incidents that someone could figure out where I live, but since its just me GL and Trypt I don’t have to worry about that.
They are shocking incidents DB.
@Digital Buddha 987090 wrote:
Probably put enough identifying details of the incidents that someone could figure out where I live, but since its just me GL and Trypt I don’t have to worry about that.
I wouldn’t worry too much; the incidents you mention seem to be increasingly common in just about every bit of the USA other than than Alaska which appears to have more moose and bears than people in many parts of it (leaving 49 other states to choose from).
That said I I don’t think that people in Europe are really much better behaved than those in USA, we are still highly influenced by USA popular culture (especially rap/urban music) and suspect such unpleasantness would be equally common in Europe were it not for a combination of gun control laws and social engineering (more commonplace in mainland Europe and Scotland) mostly aimed at teens and young adults to encourage them to value all forms of life, and reminding them that modern forensic work when done well is relatively effective.
This week there were armed Police patrols in the street where this happened and even others closer to where I live and the cops have now made an arrest in the Norwich area.
I’ve only seen anything like this about twice in 10 years of living here (in most UK towns only two police cars in every district contain armed officers) – the sight of cops openly carrying firearms (usually even armed units just keep them in the gun safe within the car) in our country it looks worrying and “foreign” but I can see why it is done if the local hoodrats think they can get away with stuff like this.
Incidentally this latest charge is attempt murder and the 4 youths previously arrested are currently released on bail. It is still worryingly unclear whether the cops have actually located or seized the firearm used in the crime.
I’m not worried about it, and even if someone ID’ed me it wouldn’t matter. We have a lot of shootings in America over stupid shit, sad really.
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