Amsterdam: Drug warning, 3 people dead
- December 1, 2014 at 2:10 pm #833467
@tryptameanie 576038 wrote:
I wasn’t criticizing the Dutch GL, far from it, as I said I think the Dutch do an amazing job with respect to safety, harm reduction and making sure the info, no matter how bad it may seem on them, is out there.
Unfortunately the Dutch themselves (or at least the centre right leaning Protestant half of the population) are far more critical of their own country; and these critics are well off and powerful. They have put a lot of effort into monitoring Amsterdam and the only reason gedoogbeleid exists is to bring in the tourism revenue. it would otherwise be no different culturally and demographically from Ipswich and the crime levels in comparison are way higher (overall crime levels of the UK and NL are near identical) – both towns suffer from the same social problems caused by a combination of the economic depression, addiction issues and tensions amongst a multicultural European population.
As the Dutch have good English skills there is an increasing problem with emigration and capital flight to the UK (i,e investing in farmland and industries on our side of the coast) from NL disagree with the amount of tax money spent on keeping places like Amsterdam safe and feel that young people are given too much leeway.
What is most sinister about this incident is it could even be a “lone wolf activist” with a grudge against English drug users deliiberately doing this; they may have planned it for years, perhaps carefully stalking dealers and their clients using standard detectives techniques, in order to learn how to approach them.
If this seems outlandish consider that earlier this year Els Borst, a female Dutch politician from the D66 party (similar to the LibDems) who legalised euthanasia was found dead with her skull pierced by a sharp object such as an icepick. She was 85 but in good health and fitness and like most politicians who deal with controversial issues security aware. The feds still haven’t caught the killer although she was receiving increasingly violent threats from the religious types – most of whom would be of her own age group.December 1, 2014 at 2:19 pm #833568
Sadly that seems to be similar to many countries round the world. Over here the lib dems, labour and the greens all want to at least look at reform of drugs policy but then we have the old, rich and powerful and have prehistoric views on how society should be, whether that fits in with how society is in this day and age, and will do whatever it takes to get what they want.
The suspicions about the killer of the Dutch politician is nowhere near as ridiculous as it may seem at 1st. It won’t be the 1st time and it probably won’t be the last sadly.December 1, 2014 at 3:19 pm #833569
Hey, I have to say it’s good to see you posting again GL. The last few days I thought you must be unwell or something as you haven’t made any posts so glad to see you’re still breathing bud :).December 3, 2014 at 8:27 pm #833570
Piece in The Washington Post inspired by this event.
The last paragraph is interesting. “Some final food for thought: 44 percent of Americans report having used marijuana in their lifetimes, and 14 percent have used cocaine. In the Netherlands, those numbers stand at 26 percent and 5 percent, respectively.”December 3, 2014 at 9:41 pm #833468
The rest of the GGD website (in Dutch) has some interesting contrasts; for one thing this warning is not repeated in Dutch (confirming this dealer seems to be targeting visitors), instead there are articles on dealing with Aids and outlining assistance given to deal with the airliner crash in UA; as well as the normal health advice articles you would expect for any large Northern European town in winter such as beware of carbon monoxide and fire hazards from heating appliances.
One article cites statistics that 28% of those arrested in Amsterdam for other crimes (such as theft, fighting etc) do have substance abuse problems and various other physical and mental health problems (to the point they require immediate medical treatment) but I don’t think that is much different from anywhere else in Europe.
As for the statistics; I had a look at where Eurostat were getting their data from and how much effort was put into processing them in NL and suspect the differences are more because Dutch youngsters have more sense than to tell government researchers how much drugs they are taking as even if they aren’t going to be nicked for it; their favourite music venues might be put under surveillance and have “licensing problems” / lose investment backing.December 3, 2014 at 9:48 pm #833571
You have to take all statistics with a pinch of salt unless you have access to a full methodology and all data gathered etc. As the saying goes, there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
And just for fun, statistically 9/11 Americans won’t get this joke.December 5, 2014 at 5:33 pm #833582
I like the way they try to work with people instead of judging them
Amsterdam’s reputation as a mecca for party-hopping tourists has taken a darker turn in the past couple of months, as a string of heroin-related tourist deaths and hospitalizations rocked the city. But instead of criminalizing these people, the city is just trying to make everyone safer. What a novel idea.December 5, 2014 at 5:39 pm #833572
They showed beyond any doubt all they wanted was to prevent another young persons death by making people safer rather than threatening them with harsh penalties as if that’s gonna stop anything.
Top marks for the Dutch, they are a great example of what a bit of rationality and tolerance can lead to.December 16, 2014 at 7:22 am #833523
i hope they catch the bastards with their china white.and stuff the whole lot up their arse.see if they like it,murdering bastards excuse my frenchApril 7, 2015 at 5:09 pm #833469
the alleged dealer has handed himself in to Dutch authorities in Amsterdam; claiming he genuinely did not know what he was selling (TBH it is possible that language barriers or even misidentification cause this to happen; in a similar way to how people get poisoned when dangerous cleaning chemicals are decanted into empty drinks bottles and served up to customers as the expected product)April 7, 2015 at 5:24 pm #833573
Top Job GL.
IO personally right now find it hard to swallow that he didn’t know what he was selling. That also implies he doesn’t know what he was buying and more than likely using. I agree it’s possible but while they may look similar, the cost difference should make it obvious but IDK.April 7, 2015 at 5:39 pm #833470
@Requiem 596310 wrote:
Top Job GL.
IO personally right now find it hard to swallow that he didn’t know what he was selling. That also implies he doesn’t know what he was buying and more than likely using. I agree it’s possible but while they may look similar, the cost difference should make it obvious but IDK.
There are a lot of dealers in Europe who do not use the drugs they sell; a bit like some UK gangsters in the 1980s. They operate at the higher levels of the chain and are more likely to be laundering their money into legit businesses. It is possible (especially given the guys older age) he was a “chancer” who only dealt occasionally and to tourists rather than natives (which is a far more risky thing to do); it is unclear whether he understands Dutch or only English as in Amsterdam it is (just) possible to get by being an English speaker. Paradoxically I am wary to visit the Netherlands without a proper agenda/journey plan and a good explanation for all of my movements/activities as I fit so many profiles associated with “multicultural middle class drug dealers” though I suspect it would be at Harwich Border Force checking they would be most suspicious.
Mislabelling a product can happen with anything – (I regularly get sent incorrect electronic components and have to get the right ones sent by the suppliers; thankfully with legal commodities there are safeguards against harm like the warning labels found on cleaning chemicals (or even RCs; although they are more for the protection of postal workers or non users).
Some older friends who are not into anything stronger than coffee at least these days ( I get the impression some did party a bit in 1970s) and like fixing up old vintage electronics from their days and respectable hobbies like amateur radio buy components from NL and vinyl records and always have their parcels delayed/opened up by UK authorities; it seems that generation will never be forgiven for the permissive society; plus you do read in both EN and NL news about old guys like them being busted for dealing when you’d never have expected them to be “the sort who did that”. Often that occurs following stronger drugs turning up in a shipment and overdoses in a local area near the dealer.
BTW a 1 kilo container of pure caffeine correctly labeled shows a skull and crossbones, not the (!) or (X) (the X is obsolete now anyway); and there is enough in there to kill a body builder and his dog if taken in overdose (it happened a few years ago) but thats the whole reason for the labelling in Europe (if not sold in an obvious form like a cappucino) and why decriminalisation/legalisation makes sense (European nations have tried to outlaw coffee and caffeine in the past!)April 7, 2015 at 5:47 pm #833574
Did you see the time period over which this happened? It was months and caused 20 other people to end up in hospital. To sell white heroin so consistently as cocaine for that period makes me suspicious and if his face has been plastered all over the news he was probably wise to get a lawyer and hand himself in.
Whether it’s the truth idk but doing this probably gives him a bit more credibility with the courts.April 7, 2015 at 6:06 pm #833471
Even if the drugs were not as harmful or correctly sold and he was caught in NL he would be advised to get a lawyer if cops are after him because of his age; he is more likely to get prison or a higher fine/sentence than a younger person – the UK Police themselves have told me they treat crime by over 30s more seriously than that of younger people; and I’ve found evidence of this policy on the Home Office internal websites (I once had access to them due to previous employment; although this wasn’t restricted/protect data; its just been buried or lost in changes of government).
I suspect similar policies apply throughout the EU – I’d read about a lesser case where a 30 year old was caught with a fair few xtc-pills (not dangerous ones) but he had to do extra community service and attend rehab whereas 20 somethings just get a fine and confiscation of their profits. Otherwise dealers don’t even get prison in NL The rehab appeared to have been linked to mental health treatment; the argument being that if you have reached 30 and keep breaking your countrys laws (even for minor stuff) you could have a mental health problem…
(There is lots of other stuff on the Dutch bit Trimbos hinting at this; and also that Amsterdam is full of basket cases my age and older selling (and using) hardddrugs and getting caught up in shoplifting or nastier stuff like harrassing/intimidating people and that they are from all of EU and beyond including a fair few English speakers. it is still possible he could be a psychopath doing this deliberately but the Dutch system still gives him a fair trial and unfortunately crimes like this are part of a darker side of Dutch society I’ve noticed whilst learning the language (as a good source for learning standaard Nederlands are police and crime reports); it is unusual for tourists to be targeted but can happen (also in Germany but their crime reporting is flawed due to excessive privacy laws)
This is also why the politie couldn’t just catch the guy straight away; they are hard stretched dealing with the fallout from the 1990s.April 7, 2015 at 6:09 pm #833575
In NL how hard is it to find an English speaking dealer?
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