Party Vibe

your thoughts alot of the time are alot different than reality, when you do the stuff you realise you’ve just been worrying urself for nothing.

i suffered with anxiety b4 i ever found ‘rugs, speed actually made me feel better.

i have had severe panic attacks on drugs but these were brought on by been UP for 2 or 3 days at a time with no sleep.

valium and anxiety…. WHAT ANXIETY?

@1984 369052 wrote:

Yeah I used to a bit on speed coke weed K (at times) etc tbh I am so paranoid all of the time now its hard to tell if rugs make it worse or not. I would like to go with not.

I take can a guess why that might be looking at your avatar, but I may be wrong. 😉 If I’m right, I’d also agree it’s probably ‘that’ and not so much the drugs.

@leveret 369442 wrote:

but after the up there must come a “down” when your levels are low, and it’ll be low all over the brain at once.

I’m no neuroscience genius, but I have spent almost a decade reading about brain chemistry already.

I’m not so sure about the serotonin depletion thing and the idea of taking 5-HTP.

Pretty much anything based on a phenethylamine like pattern of activity, molly, MDA, amp, meth, meph, BZP, tmpff, all the RC’s basically, will to some extent flood the brain with serotonin. They’re different to tryptamines, psilocybin / lsd, in that sense in that they’re not interferring with the normal neurotransmitters there, they’re causing the vesicles (which are tiny bags full of normal transmitters in the synapses waiting to be released in a controlled manner) to all burst out at once, creating the “I want to roll around on the carpet and fuck you until it hurts” sensation.

The come down people feel I doubt is related to there being too little serotonin, it’s more likely the brain is just missing the massive surge.

5-HTP may work, but I think a lot of it could just be the placebo effect.

I’ve never really felt the huge mental crash even after soaring away for days. I just tell myself it’s something to expect and to ignore it, and that seems to work fine. Which is why I also suspect the 5-HTP thing may be largely a placebo.

Also, your body won’t naturally take up things it doesn’t need. If the serotonin levels are returning to normal, your body will just throw the spare 5-HTP out into the poo and piss system. That’s why you can’t get molly like experiences from 5-HTP, regardless of how much of you eat. The same applies for all the anti-oxidant and extreme vitamin diets. I 100% back anyone suggesting you should eat more fruit and generally eat healthier, but eating tons of them won’t do much to help, your body throws out the 99% surplus you’ve eaten. These things work great when you’re spraying them on cells in a petri dish, but the body is far more advanced when it comes to determining what should be allowed through and what isn’t needed.

If you look on the back of a Vitamin C pack, it’s common to find they have 300 – 1000% more than your RDA in them. Your body will then try to piss out the extra. That can actually cause harm as things like the kidneys get overloaded with it.

Be careful taking any supplement without knowing EXACTLY what it’ll do in your body.

For example, if you take any kind of anti-depressant, you need to avoid things like 5-HTP / Tryptophan, because the combination will cause a serotonin syndrome response. Simlarly, anti-depressants + anything remotely like a phenethylamine can lead to horrible S.Syndrome responses and, I believe, the potential for death.

SSRI’s / MAOI’s can also remain in your body for weeks, so stopping a few hours or days before hitting a handful of pills is not good enough. You may then find yourself excusing the shitty effects you feel on taking them as them being ‘bad pills’, when in reality it’s more likely to be that you’ve accidentally ‘od’ the dose.

Another anxiety related neurotransmitter is dopamine, which in other parts of the brain works as a pleasure/reward chemical. Although nobody’s done any research yet on how mephe works, I’ve read suggestions that it seems to have a lot of dopamine effects (hence the tendency to fiend on it to “repeat the pleasure”)

Never fiended on meph myself, or even coke. I’m more addicted to morning mugs o’ tea and weird pron than any drug. The only fiending I get on meph. is to make up for it’s short duration, once it’s gone, I’m not particularly interested in getting anymore of it.

Dopamine is also responsible for violent behavior, which is why meth addicts can end up resorting to violence so readily, since I believe it focuses much more heavily on dopamine saturation as opposed to serotonin or a combination of the two, as things like Molly do.

Abnormally high amounts of dopamine have also been found in psychotics.

@p0ly 378489 wrote:

valium and anxiety…. WHAT ANXIETY?

I want some valium, but they won’t give it to me.

I used to have major problems with sleep, to the point I started seeing things from sleep deprivation. That wasn’t drug related.

I ended up getting up at 4am looking out the window for ‘people’, after receiving threats and such.

I think it’s easy to excuse anxiety or confuse it with paranoia. I get paranoid if I’m out in public on any harder drugs and not around a crowd that is used to them. That’s not the drug, it’s that I’m worried about how more normal people might react if they detect I’m on something – like seeing the saucer eyes or me spending ten minutes trying to decide which pack of Monster Munch to buy.

I went to the doctor in the end and they immediately wrote me off as clinically insane when I described thinking people might be following me, putting me on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Neither of them did anything to me. I tried modifying my own dosages from 20mg a day to 80mg, they weren’t happy with that at all, assuming I was trying to kill myself. I’m not insane, I’m just well aware of how the public respond to Class A users, which isn’t very positive. I’m sure you in particular will understand why I thought people were following me after that PM I sent you. That wasn’t my imagination, it was reality. Which is what every crazy says. But then, they don’t have the phone calls and real world evidence of it happening.

Incidentally, getting phone calls from the crazy people is extremely upsetting and scary given the, admittedly outdated and unrealistic, history of how society treats people like that. For a very graphic example, search for ‘transorbital lobotomy’, there are videos of W J Freeman doing them on youtube; he proscribed them for everything down to bored housewives and over active kids, performing one on a 4 year old. I warn you, having seen people getting shot or splattered by trains, one of those videos in particular is going to upset you. Luckily, it is now a million miles away from how they actually respond to you and there’s nothing to worry about going to see such people, they only want to talk to you and will only section you if you’re genuinely on the edge of killing yourself or someone else within the next few hours or days. I’ve detailed to the people I’ve seen about how I’ve had to carry knives with me and go round to someone’s house with one. They didn’t section me for that because there was a rational explanation for me doing it and it was to defend myself as opposed to threaten others.

@LFB2009 369123 wrote:

Eventually i’ll start acting my age and knocking all this on the head and being mr family/work and nothing else guy! but for the time being whilst i still enjoy to an extent i’ll put up with those thoughts feelings untill i can’t be bothered with it all anymore.

Nice post!

Do you have kids? I don’t, but I was in regular contact with young kids (below ten) for a while. It seems funny as hell (and I guess worrying to their parents, if they knew) that I was so heavily involved with Class As at the same time. I was never on drugs around them. I’d never hurt them and I hated watching other members of staff do things like light up a cigarette in front of them. That’s not Class As, but shit… why? Everything a child that young sees they’ll take as evidence of how they should behave, smoking in front of them is a horrible idea, since they’ll then pick that up as okay; specially when the people doing it are identified by society as being references for how to behave.

Being around kids that young is so much fun, it’s like they’re all tripping their balls off on life 24/7. They come out with such funny stuff.

I want some kids, I think that’d put an end to a lot of my messing around and I’d be just as happy, or more so.

My life has been the reverse of a typical child’s. My dad died at a young age. My mum would go out early in the morning then not come back until late, then drink as soon as she walked in, every night. It absolutely destroyed any normality in the family. She was keeping the curtains draw all the time, talking about how everyone was ‘showing off’ or ‘bastards’, which I’ve had to put a lot of effort into fighting out of my own attitude. I couldn’t ever have friends round because the house was in such a state you’d literally be tripping over or getting injured by junk piled in every room. I’d tidy the entire place, go to bed, and she’d have gotten drunk and wrecked it all again by the morning. That went on for my entire teens. I’ve spent literally so much time and effort repainting the place, fixing the garden, teaching myself plumbing and electrics to fix stuff and yet she’s still maintaining it in a state that no one is allowed in. The last two visitors we had were the police, and even then she panicked and had us try to tidying one room for them to sit in.

One christmas, I was cooking the dinner, getting ready to put the decorations up and repainting a bedroom so my sister could bring her boyfriend home to have sex. No one else had done anything. I eventually gave up and said someone else could do it all, to be told to “Fuck off!” out the house. It’s not been helped by my older brother and sister, who don’t do anything (my sister has literally never cooked a single meal for us), telling me it was my responsibility to keep up with that. I basically didn’t have a childhood because of all this.

I eventually lost my decade’s worth of patience and start screaming at them and breaking things to try and make a point. They had me arrested for that. And that’s when I got referred to a psychiatric intervention team. With the excuse for it all being drug use and something wrong with me.

I found using drugs always did the opposite of making me anxious, it gave me some hours to entirely leave reality and I loved being somewhere else for a while.

I think that defines two different classes of drug users.

You standard child who’s grown up happier and is trying drugs once or twice will be the kind you described “doing, then worrying”. The kind that end up abusing them and potentially killing themselves, like myself and the kids on council estates, are worried first and then do.

Having my own kids would mean being more responsible with myself, but I’ve basically been married to my mum for my entire childhood and had my own child in the form of my little brother to look after when she was drunk all the time. But with my own kids I’d have the satisfaction of knowing they loved me and that I could teach them and help them. Whereas the two I’ve had so far in life have been quite the opposite, all the responsibility and nothing in return.

My mate once said something like “well that’ll make you better at life later on surely?”. Which may be true to some extent. But I the stress is unreal. I was getting headaches daily and blisters on my palms from clenching all my muscles up. It would also be very easy for me to end up in jail for a long time or dead.

I’ve had 70 year old neighbours and such tell me I’m very responsible, even in my early teens, but other kids my own age don’t care about that, in fact it terms them off since you’re no fun anymore. I’ve had serious problems being with girls because me being responsible isn’t what they’re after at that age.

As to exercising, changing your diet and doing exercise will help. But I took that to the extreme of actually making myself throw up from overheating and such. I’d be running and going to the gym everyday. I ended up weighing about 8 and half stone. I also wrecked the tendon in my ankle making it impossible for me to keep running. The stress returned and I temporarily (thankfully) had serious problems with alcohol. I also started smoking, which is what killed my dad and various other relatives.

Another problem with dumping stress / anxiety through exercise is that, if you end up doing it to the extent I did, your metabolism rockets up and you literally start cooking, everyone would be saying how hot I felt. I’d wake up more times than I could count through the night with the bed looking like I’d just pissed myself from the amount of sweat pouring off me. I’d be constantly flipping pillows and duvets over, or having to get more, sometimes a few times a night. So take it easy on the super hardcore exercise.

@johnuk 382345 wrote:

I take can a guess why that might be looking at your avatar, but I may be wrong. 😉 If I’m right, I’d also agree it’s probably ‘that’ and not so much the drugs.

I’m no neuroscience genius, but I have spent almost a decade reading about brain chemistry already.

I’m not so sure about the serotonin depletion thing and the idea of taking 5-HTP.

Pretty much anything based on a phenethylamine like pattern of activity, molly, MDA, amp, meth, meph, BZP, tmpff, all the RC’s basically, will to some extent flood the brain with serotonin. They’re different to tryptamines, psilocybin / lsd, in that sense in that they’re not interferring with the normal neurotransmitters there, they’re causing the vesicles (which are tiny bags full of normal transmitters in the synapses waiting to be released in a controlled manner) to all burst out at once, creating the “I want to roll around on the carpet and fuck you until it hurts” sensation.

The come down people feel I doubt is related to there being too little serotonin, it’s more likely the brain is just missing the massive surge.

5-HTP may work, but I think a lot of it could just be the placebo effect.

I’ve never really felt the huge mental crash even after soaring away for days. I just tell myself it’s something to expect and to ignore it, and that seems to work fine. Which is why I also suspect the 5-HTP thing may be largely a placebo.

Also, your body won’t naturally take up things it doesn’t need. If the serotonin levels are returning to normal, your body will just throw the spare 5-HTP out into the poo and piss system. That’s why you can’t get molly like experiences from 5-HTP, regardless of how much of you eat. The same applies for all the anti-oxidant and extreme vitamin diets. I 100% back anyone suggesting you should eat more fruit and generally eat healthier, but eating tons of them won’t do much to help, your body throws out the 99% surplus you’ve eaten. These things work great when you’re spraying them on cells in a petri dish, but the body is far more advanced when it comes to determining what should be allowed through and what isn’t needed.

If you look on the back of a Vitamin C pack, it’s common to find they have 300 – 1000% more than your RDA in them. Your body will then try to piss out the extra. That can actually cause harm as things like the kidneys get overloaded with it.

Be careful taking any supplement without knowing EXACTLY what it’ll do in your body.

For example, if you take any kind of anti-depressant, you need to avoid things like 5-HTP / Tryptophan, because the combination will cause a serotonin syndrome response. Simlarly, anti-depressants + anything remotely like a phenethylamine can lead to horrible S.Syndrome responses and, I believe, the potential for death.

SSRI’s / MAOI’s can also remain in your body for weeks, so stopping a few hours or days before hitting a handful of pills is not good enough. You may then find yourself excusing the shitty effects you feel on taking them as them being ‘bad pills’, when in reality it’s more likely to be that you’ve accidentally ‘od’ the dose.

Never fiended on meph myself, or even coke. I’m more addicted to morning mugs o’ tea and weird pron than any drug. The only fiending I get on meph. is to make up for it’s short duration, once it’s gone, I’m not particularly interested in getting anymore of it.

Dopamine is also responsible for violent behavior, which is why meth addicts can end up resorting to violence so readily, since I believe it focuses much more heavily on dopamine saturation as opposed to serotonin or a combination of the two, as things like Molly do.

Abnormally high amounts of dopamine have also been found in psychotics.

I want some valium, but they won’t give it to me.

I used to have major problems with sleep, to the point I started seeing things from sleep deprivation. That wasn’t drug related.

I ended up getting up at 4am looking out the window for ‘people’, after receiving threats and such.

I think it’s easy to excuse anxiety or confuse it with paranoia. I get paranoid if I’m out in public on any harder drugs and not around a crowd that is used to them. That’s not the drug, it’s that I’m worried about how more normal people might react if they detect I’m on something – like seeing the saucer eyes or me spending ten minutes trying to decide which pack of Monster Munch to buy.

I went to the doctor in the end and they immediately wrote me off as clinically insane when I described thinking people might be following me, putting me on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. Neither of them did anything to me. I tried modifying my own dosages from 20mg a day to 80mg, they weren’t happy with that at all, assuming I was trying to kill myself. I’m not insane, I’m just well aware of how the public respond to Class A users, which isn’t very positive. I’m sure you in particular will understand why I thought people were following me after that PM I sent you. That wasn’t my imagination, it was reality. Which is what every crazy says. But then, they don’t have the phone calls and real world evidence of it happening.

Incidentally, getting phone calls from the crazy people is extremely upsetting and scary given the, admittedly outdated and unrealistic, history of how society treats people like that. For a very graphic example, search for ‘transorbital lobotomy’, there are videos of W J Freeman doing them on youtube; he proscribed them for everything down to bored housewives and over active kids, performing one on a 4 year old. I warn you, having seen people getting shot or splattered by trains, one of those videos in particular is going to upset you. Luckily, it is now a million miles away from how they actually respond to you and there’s nothing to worry about going to see such people, they only want to talk to you and will only section you if you’re genuinely on the edge of killing yourself or someone else within the next few hours or days. I’ve detailed to the people I’ve seen about how I’ve had to carry knives with me and go round to someone’s house with one. They didn’t section me for that because there was a rational explanation for me doing it and it was to defend myself as opposed to threaten others.

Nice post!

Do you have kids? I don’t, but I was in regular contact with young kids (below ten) for a while. It seems funny as hell (and I guess worrying to their parents, if they knew) that I was so heavily involved with Class As at the same time. I was never on drugs around them. I’d never hurt them and I hated watching other members of staff do things like light up a cigarette in front of them. That’s not Class As, but shit… why? Everything a child that young sees they’ll take as evidence of how they should behave, smoking in front of them is a horrible idea, since they’ll then pick that up as okay; specially when the people doing it are identified by society as being references for how to behave.

Being around kids that young is so much fun, it’s like they’re all tripping their balls off on life 24/7. They come out with such funny stuff.

I want some kids, I think that’d put an end to a lot of my messing around and I’d be just as happy, or more so.

My life has been the reverse of a typical child’s. My dad died at a young age. My mum would go out early in the morning then not come back until late, then drink as soon as she walked in, every night. It absolutely destroyed any normality in the family. She was keeping the curtains draw all the time, talking about how everyone was ‘showing off’ or ‘bastards’, which I’ve had to put a lot of effort into fighting out of my own attitude. I couldn’t ever have friends round because the house was in such a state you’d literally be tripping over or getting injured by junk piled in every room. I’d tidy the entire place, go to bed, and she’d have gotten drunk and wrecked it all again by the morning. That went on for my entire teens. I’ve spent literally so much time and effort repainting the place, fixing the garden, teaching myself plumbing and electrics to fix stuff and yet she’s still maintaining it in a state that no one is allowed in. The last two visitors we had were the police, and even then she panicked and had us try to tidying one room for them to sit in.

One christmas, I was cooking the dinner, getting ready to put the decorations up and repainting a bedroom so my sister could bring her boyfriend home to have sex. No one else had done anything. I eventually gave up and said someone else could do it all, to be told to “Fuck off!” out the house. It’s not been helped by my older brother and sister, who don’t do anything (my sister has literally never cooked a single meal for us), telling me it was my responsibility to keep up with that. I basically didn’t have a childhood because of all this.

I eventually lost my decade’s worth of patience and start screaming at them and breaking things to try and make a point. They had me arrested for that. And that’s when I got referred to a psychiatric intervention team. With the excuse for it all being drug use and something wrong with me.

I found using drugs always did the opposite of making me anxious, it gave me some hours to entirely leave reality and I loved being somewhere else for a while.

I think that defines two different classes of drug users.

You standard child who’s grown up happier and is trying drugs once or twice will be the kind you described “doing, then worrying”. The kind that end up abusing them and potentially killing themselves, like myself and the kids on council estates, are worried first and then do.

Having my own kids would mean being more responsible with myself, but I’ve basically been married to my mum for my entire childhood and had my own child in the form of my little brother to look after when she was drunk all the time. But with my own kids I’d have the satisfaction of knowing they loved me and that I could teach them and help them. Whereas the two I’ve had so far in life have been quite the opposite, all the responsibility and nothing in return.

My mate once said something like “well that’ll make you better at life later on surely?”. Which may be true to some extent. But I the stress is unreal. I was getting headaches daily and blisters on my palms from clenching all my muscles up. It would also be very easy for me to end up in jail for a long time or dead.

I’ve had 70 year old neighbours and such tell me I’m very responsible, even in my early teens, but other kids my own age don’t care about that, in fact it terms them off since you’re no fun anymore. I’ve had serious problems being with girls because me being responsible isn’t what they’re after at that age.

As to exercising, changing your diet and doing exercise will help. But I took that to the extreme of actually making myself throw up from overheating and such. I’d be running and going to the gym everyday. I ended up weighing about 8 and half stone. I also wrecked the tendon in my ankle making it impossible for me to keep running. The stress returned and I temporarily (thankfully) had serious problems with alcohol. I also started smoking, which is what killed my dad and various other relatives.

Another problem with dumping stress / anxiety through exercise is that, if you end up doing it to the extent I did, your metabolism rockets up and you literally start cooking, everyone would be saying how hot I felt. I’d wake up more times than I could count through the night with the bed looking like I’d just pissed myself from the amount of sweat pouring off me. I’d be constantly flipping pillows and duvets over, or having to get more, sometimes a few times a night. So take it easy on the super hardcore exercise.

that was a very interesting read and i thank you for sharing it. 5-HTP will have different effects on different people, personally i have found it to be incredibly helpful on stimulant comedowns.

You seem like you’ve been through a lot and have come out a very cool person so i hope the best for you mate. 😉