dave chapelle is one funny fucker hmm tried embedding these but it didnt work :( here are the links though :D u should know who lil jon is before watching them! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=k2_aSWXfQuE listen to the beginning of that if you dont know who lil jon is-hes the one sayin yeah, what? and ok)
http://www.youtube.com/v/-OgYjkqa-0A
http://www.youtube.com/v/aH3aNykoQf0
:bounce_fl
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXnoNgxwsE4 i think this ones quite good for a home video, few of those make me laugh
anything goin on this weekend?? i follow rigs like aztec, illicit, storm,low key,native beats but i was wondering if there are any bigger rigs that i should go an see. seen brainscan pics and they look like proper rigs can anyone give me some help findin one?
i was also wondering if anyone nows whats on this weekend, dont want directions just wheither the rigs are playin or not and wat they r.noemail from aztec.
9/15/06
thanx12
WORK! AN IT’S DAMN LEAKAGE INTO OUR WASTED STATE! Me and some friends have experienced this, and just wondered if anyone else had!!
My friend Panda, a few times has been so wasted on MDMA or pills and has believed he was somewhere and interacting with things (inside his head obviously), only to suddenly come back into the real world when someone spoke to him asking what the fuck he was doing... (in this case, he believed he was on a bus... so he started saying he needed to get off at the next stop, obviously no-one else had a clue what he was talking about because we weren't in his head lol)
I've also had a number of friends who genuinely believed they were at work for a few minutes, doing something which would be something they'd do at work - or saying something to someone at a party what they would say to a customer at work.
I once was pretty spangled at a party round a friend's house.. went to the loo, only after to start cleaning the bathroom thinking I was a work.. and then suddenly snapped out of it and couldn't think of much else but "What the fuck?"
MAN, WE TAKE MAGICKS TO HAVE FUN AND LET LOOSE.. NOT TO THINK WE ARE AT WORK AND GET ALL STRESSED OUT OVER IT AGAIN! lmao
But then maybe that's why some episodes like this happen? It just goes to show that work does play a lot on our minds and stress us out lots?
Another thing a few of my friends have done is think they were playing some sort of game for a few minutes when they weren't, or thought they were actually IN a game lol.
Hmm... no idea why this happens! But it's funny when it does lol =]
12
K-holes I can never decide whether I hate Ketamine or love it... and because of that it really intrigues me and I do it anyway because the experiences are all so odd, sometimes really pretty.. and sometimes (when I do that little bit too much) it's horrible but still an experience worth keeping in my memory because it's that detatched from reality that it's pretty anyway. (if that makes sense lol!)
Have written an interesting experience of mine of the latter below!
Probably my third time trying K, so I was not so sensible with it and I had drank a fair bit of wine. After my line I felt more and more drunk, declared I was going into the living room - almost falling over on the way - then I get stuff muddled a bit, I'm not sure if I sat in there a while before falling backwards whilst sitting and banging my head on the floor, or if that happened straight away. I also don't know if banging my head was the cause of why stuff went more weird, but am pretty sure it wasn't - it was just me not being very careful of the amount of Ketamine I took whilst being drunk.
In no specific order (due to memory being muddled up)... I remember seeing a silver kind of surface with silver gel-like (kind of the substance you would get if you melted a spoon?) patterns being formed... remember feeling wet on my face for a few seconds, just kept seeing patterns - assuming water was coming from my face somehow and spreading out onto this hard surface. So many voices, but could not pick any of them out.
And then, for ages I was seeing a very distorted world.. and was thinking that this was the real reality, the previous was a fake one and I had just peeled it off my view screen somehow to reveal this distorted world, full of fragments of muddled up memories of things and people from different times in my life - from the world I had believed up till then to be real. Messed up work place, seeing two people dancing (my friend Andrea was dancing throughout most of the day with some guy I hadn't seen before, so it's safe to say it was them), lots of twisted staircases similar to those in the film the Labyrinth, my friend Panda's head appeared and spoke to me a few times (no idea what he said, nor if it was because Panda was actually speaking to me in the real world which was why he appeared in my dream vision type thing), It was pretty chaotic. I remember wanting the old world back so much. And I remember how each part of the scene I was seeing was in levels, or I had to get through something (can't remember what) to be able to portal through into another more messed up scene. It was also very much like some sort of planned sequence, like the levels in a computer game, only I didn't know how to conquer the end level - I felt like I was going round and round in circles, just hoping the end portal would take me back to the reality which made sense to me. I very very faintly remember feeling hands on me to pick me up, but still couldn't open my eyes - although this may only be a reconstructed memory due to being told that people carried me to another room after the K had completely worn off.
I don't remember anything clear reality-wise until I was told to drink water by my friends Daisy and Panda, I tried to open my eyes but I couldn't open them properly for ages and got really distressed because I couldn't see anything apart from distorted shapes and light so bright it stung my eyes - and I really didn't know what the fuck was going on. At first I had it in my head that we were sitting in some oriental greenhouse, and then thought "I wonder if anyone got fucked up? It would be weird to forget things." When I realised it was me that went really weird and forgot stuff (still don't know how long for, maybe a few hours - no idea) I got even more confused and weirded out because I had never forgot stuff before whilst being under the influence. I like to be completely aware of what I'm doing all of the time - even if I remember stuff a bit blurry, I still like to know what's going on. Daisy and Panda told me to calm down and stuff, but I was still trying to open my eyes because I wanted to see so bad - I kept thinking I still wasn't yet in reality, that my eyes were tricking me and my ears were lying. I started to be able to see a little though, realising I was in a bathroom but it didn't seem like my friend's bathroom at all it felt different and I assumed I was in someone else's house for some reason.
Next thing I know I'm on a bed I have never seen before with a bike next to me.. I didn't know where Daisy had gone.. I knew Panda was still there because his voice kept fading in and out and he tried to explain to me I had K-holed and stuff but not to worry. It turned out they had moved me again to another room to sleep. After a while I managed to talk a bit better and explained I felt like stuff was wearing off so I would be OK soon I hoped. Not quite back in reality, but able to comprehend some things and move - Panda said we had to go because our taxi back to another friend's was here. I realised I was in Alice's house still, but everything still had a different edge to it - and I had never been in his flatmate's room before. I was told I had been sick, which I have no recollection of, although could associate it with my dream vision thing of the silver wet stuff coming from my face onto a silver hard surface. But I didn't know it was vomit then, and I have no recollection of it whatsoever from the reality world. So if I had done that and not known about it I don't know what else happened.
The taxi back was odd, I was still questioning reality and I wanted to cry because I didn't know how long it would be before it peeled away to reveal all the distorted things which made me feel pretty traumatised lol. I felt somewhat like I had just been pulled from the earth's foundation, like I was a spirit of nature or something which had been dragged into the dull greyness of the real world, but still felt a lot better that I was in something which made sense, and where the time's where in the sequence in which I knew them.
So yeah lol. That was my K-hole =]
Has anyone else K-holed? What was your experience like?
:love:
RIP DJ Milky :( I remember Jason in the early days of the rave scene in Reading (1990-2). He had everything then - a dream job in a record shop (with access to all the latest promos etc), a beautiful girlfriend, was on the guest list to every rave in the city...
I don't know what happened to him in the mid to late 90s; whether all the above disappeared as some of the Record Basement staff destroyed themselves and their business as the combination of long hours propped up by drugs took their toll (something that has unfortunately claimed so many businesses run by young party-friendly people :( ) - but I was shocked to read this in my local news.
Quote:
Tributes to top DJ 'killed by depression' Sep 20 2004
By Karl Plunkett
THE mother of Reading club legend DJ Milky has told how depression stole her son's life and described his family's attempt to bring some good out of his untimely death.
Fiona Chant, 54, found her 33-year-old son Jason dead in his room early one morning when she took him a cup of coffee.
She said: "I touched him and I knew he was long gone and all that was left for me to do was call the police, but he didn't kill himself - the depression did."
DJ Milky got his professional name from his uncanny resemblance to the Milky Bar Kid from the 1970s TV commercials.
Full story in this week's Reading Chronicle.
FS 2x Yamaha p2500s http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/uk/20_proaudio/60_power_amplifier/10_no_category/10_power_amplifier/30_p_series/30_P2500S/index.html
Pair of these need sold asap. They are in Edinburgh but can arrange for courier.
Only been used 3 or 4 times to power midtops. One has a scratch on the top about 6 inches long. Other than that they are in near perfect condition. Comes with all orginal packaging and manuals and will check but should still have 8 months on the warranty.
Would prefer to sell as a pair but can split. Arround £200 mark each would be good £370 for two.
Open to offers PM me if your interested and I can sort some pics.
any one go to re-arm your souls festival have nt really spoken to anyone who went a part from my mates.
a brialliant festival with some of the best weather for the whole year,
managed to stay up for 48 hrs which is good for me im usualy shit.
if anyone did go have you got any photos ive seen the radom audio records pics of there site but thats about it and its mostly the retox, sos and armada link up.
SaveTheRaveSide Original Parliamentary Discussion
Quote:
House of Commons debates
Thursday, 19 July 2007
What are Commons debates?
Illegal Raves (South-West Norfolk)
All Commons debates on 19 Jul 2007 « Previous debate
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn. —[Ms Diana R. Johnson.]
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6:00 pm
Christopher Fraser (South West Norfolk, Conservative) Link to this | Hansard source
I am most grateful for the opportunity to raise concern about unlicensed music events known as raves, which are causing huge distress, damage and expense in my constituency. Throughout the summer months they have become a regular feature, and in the past few weeks, residents in Marham, Narborough and Cockley Cley have suffered. Unlicensed music events are hugely profitable to the organisers, and they have nothing to do with the altruistic values of young people. They are a product of a get-rich quick formula that tramples on the rural economy. Costs are minimised, no tax is paid, and there is no regard for anyone or anything but the profit made.
There are plenty of first-class licensed music venues in Norfolk, where events can be held legitimately and safely. I spent a memorable evening last summer with my family at a concert in Thetford forest. The event was extremely well managed by the Forestry Commission; excellent arrangements for public safety, public facilities, car parking, sound and lighting showed just how such events can be staged legitimately. Why should local people put up with unlicensed events on their land if all they amount to is a money-raising exercise for the organisers? Lawbreakers are getting rich at the expense of others, which in itself is criminal, in my opinion.
Constituents tell me that they were terrified by the experience of having up to 1,000 people on their property or near their home, and said how disgusted they were by the litter, human waste and excrement and drug paraphernalia, including needles, left behind after a rave. The Government have a duty to protect the law-abiding majority from the antisocial behaviour of others, and while I am conscious of the rules relating to Adjournment debates, I would like to devote a large proportion of this evening's debate to the shortcomings of the current legislation, and ask the Minister to consider the situation. I do not seek draconian powers that would affect private parties. I know that recent changes have made it easier to disrupt illegal raves, but the reality is that current regulations are not effective deterrents and do not achieve what I believe the objectives of the police should be.
Legislation is geared towards the termination of a rave. Section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 allows the police to instruct rave-goers to leave an event. However, unless substantial numbers of police officers are quickly mustered, without notice, in rural areas at night, it is extremely difficult and potentially dangerous to try to end a party already in full swing. One journalist in the national press described the effects of an attempt by police to break up an illegal rave last year:
"Two hundred riot police from five counties dispersed the 1,000 party goers. During the clashes a police car was set on fire and nine officers were wounded, with injuries to police including a suspected broken collarbone and a severed finger. At least two revellers were also injured. Thirty people were arrested and released on bail."
Given this risk, police have to judge whether intervention is realistic. In many cases, they can do little more than monitor the event, and the organisers of the raves rely on that fact. They know that they will get away with it; that is why it is such good business for them. It appears that the organisers of the Marham event arranged for motorcyclists to help move their mobile equipment en route to the event. They also had heavies present, wearing hoods and balaclavas. The police attended but soon withdrew when it became clear that they could only monitor what was going on.
It often seems to the public that the police are not doing all they can to prevent a rave, but the site of the party is often revealed only a few hours or minutes beforehand, specifically so that the police have no time to act. That means that the law relating to the prohibition of "trespass assemblies", which requires an application to the district council for a prohibition order, cannot be applied. The police have the power to direct people away from a rave in a five-mile radius of the site, but in the maze of country lanes that criss-cross Norfolk, that would demand huge numbers of police and is not workable.
In practice, the principal offence is:
"Failing to leave the site of a rave as soon as reasonable, once directed to do so."
Again, Norfolk constabulary simply does not have the resources to round up and arrest hundreds of young people who have no intention of leaving. Does the Minister agree that it would be helpful to make attendance at a rave an offence? What about an offence of organising, or being involved in organising, an event?
I am also concerned that the law focuses on single events. It does not pave the way to prosecuting persistent organisers or serial rave-goers. Power to confiscate equipment relates only to the failure to leave today's event, and is not retrospective. Norfolk constabulary told me:
"Because the legislation is aimed at stopping an event, interrogating and possibly arresting people leaving a site at the end of a rave is not within the spirit of the law."
Does the Minister agree that the ability to gather vital intelligence about regular rave-goers, the identity of the organisers or plans for future raves would be hugely helpful to the policing process? Would not it give the police a fighting chance of making progress?
What about the impact of such events on local people? Current legislation suggests that the only disruption caused by a rave comes from music which,
"by reason of its loudness and duration and the time at which it is played, is likely to cause serious distress to the inhabitants of the locality."
Although I do not underestimate the disturbance that continuous loud music causes, the illegal gatherings have other, equally distressing effects on local communities.
The presence of hundreds of people and vehicles in rural areas can cause terrible damage to farmers' fields, livestock and crops. We must not forget that when those are damaged, that has an impact on the livelihood of farmers going about their legitimate businesses. A farmer in my constituency recently wrote to me, saying:
"to protect my pigs from party-goers, I had to be present on my field from 3.30 in the morning until 8 o'clock the following night. On one occasion when I left for 5 minutes, I returned to find 4 men chasing them around their pens."
Is it any wonder that he was devastated to discover that the law appears to be on the side of the party-goers rather than on his side?
I have been advised that section 63 powers cannot be enforced in remote rural locations where there are only a few local residents. The law requires
"serious distress to be caused to the inhabitants of the locality."
That seems unfair—one law for urban areas and another for the countryside. It also suggests that a rave in the countryside is acceptable because only a few people suffer. Like my constituents, I take exception to that principle.
As the excellent Norfolk Farmwatch organisation told me, a small number of residents in a remote location can feel even more vulnerable than those in a village or town. I know of one elderly couple in my constituency who barricaded themselves into their isolated home for more than 12 hours while 1,000 revellers passed within feet of their front door. Two weeks later that couple were still trying to clear up the debris left in their barn. In a civilised society, how can the law ignore such people?
The existing criteria also fail to take account of the significant distress or damage caused to wildlife and plant life. Under section 28P(6) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, it is an offence to "intentionally or recklessly" destroy or damage any of the features of a site of special scientific interest, but only if the person knows that they are within an SSSI. Most rave-goers will be entirely ignorant of the existence of an SSSI and will therefore not be liable for any damage that they cause, no matter how serious. Why should ignorance be a factor? Natural England and the Countryside Council for Wales both have powers to make byelaws under section 28R of the 1981 Act for
"the protection of a site of special scientific interest."
As far as I can determine, the power is rarely if ever used to control the harm caused by ravers. I should be interested to hear the Minister's comments on that.
It is true that a number of rave organisers have been successfully prosecuted, but there is concern about the leniency of their sentences, which give those making huge profits little incentive to give up their business. There is an urgent need to review maximum sentences and even to elevate such offences from the magistrates court to the Crown court. Those found guilty face three months' imprisonment or a fine of up to £2,500. A Crown court could impose sentences twice as severe. Such a move would reflect the seriousness with which the Government view such crimes. Should the fines imposed take into account the cost of clearing up the site? Yes, they should. Many local landowners have spent thousands of pounds clearing their land with no help from anyone—yet another illustration of the imbalance that the rural economy has to fight.
The final issue that I want to raise is licensing. Norfolk constabulary and our local councils have told me that the Licensing Act 2003 could unintentionally facilitate raves, because it is possible to submit a temporary event notice application. The police then have just 48 hours to object, but objections can be lodged on only crime and disorder grounds. There is a view that the prospect of excessive noise might not be sufficient for the council to refuse the application. The 48-hour limit could be a particular problem if the application is delivered to a rural, largely unmanned police station on a Friday afternoon. If a licence application is granted, the benefit to the police is that it would bear the name of the organiser, against whom charges could be brought for noise and other disturbance. That in itself is reason enough for rave organisers to continue to hold unlicensed illegal events.
In conclusion, the problem of raves continues, despite recent changes in legislation. Far from the perception that the police are not using existing powers, it seems that they are in part prevented from acting because of legislative constraints. We will dissuade people from holding and supporting illegal gatherings only if the Government show that they are serious in their intent and provide an effective deterrent. I have known the Minister as a fellow parliamentarian for some time, and he has been honourable and fair in all my dealings with him. I hope that he will give an assurance to local landowners and others in constituencies such as mine throughout the country that they have a right to protection against these illegal events.
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6:14 pm
Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Home Office) Link to this | Hansard source
I congratulate the hon. Member for South-West Norfolk (Mr. Fraser) on securing this Adjournment debate on illegal raves. It is an extremely important matter, and he made his points in his usual dignified, concise and intelligent way. His constituents will know that he has raised this issue with me on a number of occasions, and he is standing up for them by raising what is an important issue not only for the people of Norfolk but for those in other parts of the country. The debate relates specifically to his constituency, but it will have a broader impact as well. I congratulate him on his work on trying to secure a benefit for his constituents that could affect other citizens of this country. I hope that I shall answer all his questions in the course of my speech, but if I appear to be reaching the end without having done so, he may wish to intervene.
I am aware of rave events occurring in the hon. Gentleman's constituency this year, and I share his anxiety that they should not become an opportunity or an excuse for disorder, antisocial activity, criminality or behaviour that intimidates and alienates members of local communities. Nor should those events facilitate illicit drug cultures, with which they have also been associated. I also realise that the effects of raves are not limited to the duration of the event itself. These gatherings can cause traffic congestion to small and wholly unsuited roads, and also lead to the depositing of huge quantities of rubbish, ruining local residents' surroundings.
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Home Office is committed to tackling criminality and antisocial behaviour, whatever form it takes. I welcome this opportunity to discuss raves, to outline the relevant legislation, and to update Members on the concerted efforts being made by the police to tackle the problem. We regard it as an extremely important matter that deserves our full attention.
I shall begin with the relevant legislation. The police are equipped with a number of powers specifically to deal with raves in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Following close liaison with the police on the changing nature of raves, that legislation was further updated in the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003. The police have powers to direct 20 or more rave-goers to leave an event. They also have pre-emptive powers to direct two or more persons preparing for a rave to leave land. It is a criminal offence to ignore those directions. The police also have powers to seize vehicles or sound equipment, and to direct people away from a gathering that has already been prohibited.
The hon. Gentleman and his constituents should also be aware that those successfully convicted may receive three months imprisonment or a fine. We always keep those matters under review, and I take his point about the need for sentencing to send out a message of deterrence to people who choose to ignore the law. Regarding enforcement, in the years from 2001 to 2005, 15 persons were prosecuted for failing to leave land when directed. Five of them were convicted. Also, three persons were prosecuted for failing to comply with a direction not to proceed in the direction of a rave, and one person was convicted. I repeat that we want the police to deal robustly with those events and, indeed, that we want the courts to support the police in their work.
It is not just legislation specific to raves that can be used by the police. I mentioned at the outset that unlawful raves have been associated with low-level public disorder, unacceptable nuisance and the possession of unlawful drugs. Members will know that a whole raft of legislation is in place and available to the police to deal with those offences—for example, sections 1 to 5 of the Public Order Act 1986, the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and even antisocial behaviour orders. Clearly, a range of other legislation in respect of public order offences, drugs misuse and so forth is available to the police for dealing with illegal raves.
Authorities in Norfolk served a temporary antisocial behaviour order on a 62-year-old man accused of masterminding a series of illegal raves in the county. The ASBO prevents him from organising or participating in any further events in the area. As the hon. Gentleman will know, should he breach that ASBO, it would amount to a criminal offence in itself. In the Thames Valley, the police have also put resources into tackling illegal raves through ASBOs, resulting in orders being placed on a couple of rave organisers, with more cases pending. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that those actions have been successful in preventing raves in the Thames Valley area.
The hon. Member for South-West Norfolk also raised the issue of mess or rubbish left behind at rave sites. As he will know, a series of Acts of Parliament can be used to tackle the problem. For example, leaving litter is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990 and provisions in the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003 give authorities the power to deal with fly-tipping and littering of the sort that the hon. Gentleman mentioned. More recently, the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 provides considerably increased powers and levels of punishment in respect of those offences.
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Christopher Fraser (South West Norfolk, Conservative) Link to this | Hansard source
May I make one observation? I accept and understand the laws that the Minister refers to, but they may well be more effective in an urban environment where it is easier to maintain surveillance on people. In very rural areas, where the fields are usually without light, it is much more difficult to catch people in the act of committing such offences.
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Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker (Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Home Office) Link to this | Hansard source
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, which I accept, and some of my later remarks may help to address it.
The use of legislation in an operational context is entirely a matter for the strategic direction that a chief officer provides for his or her force. Whether it be in an urban or rural area, this is an extremely important issue, which this debate helps to reinforce. Tactics on how individual raves should be policed are at the discretion of the officers deployed at the scene of an event and involve difficult judgments on minimising disturbance to local communities and residents, preventing any escalation in public disorder and ensuring the safety of police officers and rave- goers.
Although the detail of operational decisions is not necessarily a matter for ministerial interference, Ministers are keen—and I am certainly keen—to see best practice in policing raves disseminated across the police service, including in Norfolk. In that regard, a workshop on policing raves was hosted by the recently established National Policing Improvement Agency in June, which was attended by 100-plus police officers from around the country, including officers from Norfolk. I understand that police tactics, the sharing of intelligence, partnership working, national guidance and current legislation—issues also raised by the hon. Gentleman this evening—were all discussed, and that the feedback from the workshop will be collated and used both to promote short-term steps that forces can take further to improve their response to raves, and to inform longer-term strategic work, including whether any changes to legislation are required.
That should be of help to the hon. Gentleman, because, clearly, such a workshop will consider issues such as the policing of raves in remote rural areas, and the sharing of good practice between police forces, especially when one force has found a particular way of operating to be effective. I take his point that there is a big difference between policing a rave in a remote part of Norfolk and policing a rave in a field on the edge of London, for example.
The sub-group on raves, which was set up by the Association of Chief Police Officers working group on public order, provides an appropriate forum to take work forward, and further underlines police commitment to work nationally to improve policing of illegal raves. ACPO has recognised that the problem is growing, and the sub-group is building on work done in an earlier forum. I shall ask my officials to read the record of the debate, and to send the relevant points made by the hon. Gentleman to that working group for consideration. That might benefit him and perhaps other Members across the country who have had such problems. He asked, if I remember rightly, whether it would be possible for attendance at a rave, or organising a rave, to be made a criminal office. The group will be able to consider whether that is appropriate, whether other legislation covers that, or whether something could be done.
On the importance of partnership working, the hon. Gentleman might also like to know that the Local Government Association announced last month a five-point plan for councils to combat illegal raves. That included work with police and other agencies, intelligence gathering, which is crucial, and asking landowners to be vigilant. He might want to ask his local authority whether it is aware of that, and what steps if any it is taking in that respect.
Clearly, the hon. Gentleman called the debate because of concerns in his constituency of South-West Norfolk. I therefore want to conclude by providing him with some reassurance that Norfolk police are taking the matter seriously. They have an analyst working part-time monitoring rave websites, and the force holds a database of music rigs that are being used to organise raves in the Norfolk area. As the hon. Gentleman rightly said, help to gather intelligence is critical if we are to move forward in this area. We are therefore required to look at rave websites, magazines and other types of media in which information about where an illegal rave might take place is shared. I congratulate Norfolk police on their use of an analyst, as that can help us to deal with the problem. Officers from Norfolk, Essex and Suffolk, together with other agencies, gathered information during this year's Easter and May bank holidays to prevent illegal raves from taking place.
I hope that those remarks give the hon. Gentleman some reassurance, particularly my suggestion that the points that he has made should be referred to the ACPO sub-group, and that it should be asked to look at the legislation again, consider whether improvements can be made, share good practice and do something to prevent the appalling things that his constituents have had to suffer at the hands of people whose only goal is to make a good deal of money. Such a situation is not acceptable, and we need to work together to try to do even more about it.
Question put and agreed to.
Adjourned accordingly at half-past Six o'clock.
>>>
Col wrote:
Dear Mr Coaker
I write to you regarding a recent news report on the BBC Look East programme, which was broadcast on the 19th of July 2007 concerning illegal raves. I notice that you have made a commitment to asking a police study group to look at new ways of clamping down on raves and on those who attend them.
I speak to you here as a constituent and also as a person who has both hosted and attended "illegal raves" or gatherings (as I will refer to them hereafter)for over 15 years. I would like to see some sort of inclusion of views on the matter of gatherings from ravers themselves. I feel that to leave them out is to admonish objectivity and discourage a less encompassant view of the whole issue. I'm sure you will agree with me when I say that you can not provide an effective solution until you fully understand the problem.
The problems generated by gatherings in the United Kingdom are well documented and I can fully understand why you think a more robust approach is needed. In all honesty, further clampdowns on gatherings may well backfire for a number of reasons. Before any analysis is proferred as to why this may occur, I would like first, to bring to your attention some of the reasons why gatherings are growing in number and offer you an insight into what these cultural gatherings represent to those who attend them.
Attached to this document you will find various views regarding gatherings from those who attend them and also some of the reasons why they do. I would encourage you to read them to gain a greater awareness of the why and how as well as to observe the levels of creativity and human spirit behind the whole concept of gatherings.
As a member of parliament now holding a ministerial position, a great responsibility has been placed upon your shoulders and I believe you to be a Democratic man. It's important that you realise that What we are discussing here is, of great cultural importance to a not insignificant number of British people. Before any legislation is drawn up that may criminalise people in the hundreds of thousands, let us at least look at the impact of gatherings from all sides.
Why are "Raves" growing ?
The popularity of gatherings has increased for a number of reasons. In a slightly Ironic way it's growth can be attributed in part to the original Criminal Justice Act, but there are certainly many more contributory factors besides this. One of the largest contributors by far however is "City Centre Culture". Ask any raver why they are stood in a muddy field or damp barn on a Saturday night and it's likely they will tell you that they are escaping "city centre culture". I'm aware that you have expressed your own views publically regarding this particular culture and in truth your point of view on the matter is not far removed from the viewpoint of ravers themselves.
One of the most overlooked factors when the establishment aims to "tackle raves" is that, not only do the underestimate the scale of the problem but they refuse to ask the most fundamental question of all.
Why do "Raves" occur ?
Why do people rave ?
The answer is very much a cultural one, as well as being a result of the anti "City Centre Culture" philosophy. This is something which is very much interwoven into the fabric of mankinds existence. People have always gathered in almost every nation on earth since man became social, to dance to repetitive Tribal beats. To many ravers, gatherings are a continuation of our indigenous culture and we are simply following the traditions of our ancestors in gathering and celebrating our existence through music and dance.
When viewed in this context, it can be seen to be a fundamental right as a free human being to carry on the traditions of our ancestors and celebrate our existence in a similar fashion, provided that such celebration does not impact on the enjoyment of life of others. If proposed legislation seeks to criminalise those who maintain and evolve our indigenous culture then it must be the duty of those who believe in cultural freedom to challenge such legislation and bring it to the attention of a higher authority than that of the British Legal Establishment.
Whilst this course of action would be lengthy and costly, I believe that sufficient numbers of people still care enough about upholding our cultural traditions throughout Western Europe to fund such a challenge should it be necessary. I sincerely hope that this will not be the case and that a new way can be found to solve the problem, but I feel that this can only occur if all parties concerned are at the table.
The new Prime Minister talks of a more interactive and responsive government which seeks to reconnect with the people, I believe this is an opportunity to test the credibility of this new approach from Government. After many tiring years of Blair spin and all major decision making processes being the remit of the inner cabinet, people are as ready as Government say they are, to reconnect. Reconnecting with people and including them in the political process will often necessitate entering into dialogue with those you seek to legislate over. I would ask that any advisory body or study group set up to look at clamping down on gatherings include representatives from all sides,including the ravers themselves and I would request that you as my MP put this idea forward on my behalf.
Cultural suppression is one of the greatest crimes of the 20th century. In a society in which, education kills our childrens creativity,where success or intellectual capacity is measured on rote learning and repetition, where the "degree" is a measurement of intellect or professionalism is a sad reflection of the human condition. In a society which has a greater level of sophistication than all evolutionary equivalents in the known universe, to have the audacity and the stupidity to place culture and the arts at the bottom of the curricular and social agenda, is nothing short of the repression of humanity itself. We are undermining the human experience through education, legislation, criminalisation and a general airbrushing over of indigenous culture worldwide.
Gatherings, in my personal experience have reconnected people with a culture of creativity that is otherwise denied them as they grow from children into young adults and it's influence on culture, both popular and otherwise should not be underestimated and can not be overstated.
Gatherings and the incorporation of music, production, visual arts and so on are entities that the modern urban youth can connect with after all.
An assortment of individuals representing an entire spectrum of a modern healthy society are represented around the fire of such gatherings. It offers far greater levels of diversity, opinion, morals and culture and in much greater quantity than any city centre space could ever provide under the current format.
This cultural message is not lost upon the youth themselves, indeed it is embraced by them. If you seriously want the youth of today to listen to you as a government, then it is time that you as the peoples representatives listened impartially, to us. Gatherings have the ability to engage the modern urban youth and challenge them creatively. I've yet to see a government policy that can produce similar results on such a scale and it begs the question, as to why any government, would seek to outlaw attendance at such gatherings. One could infer that Government intended or sought to discourage critical or creative thinking within society itself.
As an MP and Minister you have a duty to represent all your constituents and to raise issues of significant political importance in the house. Those issues should not only incorporate the issues that affect landowners and the privileged, but should represent the views of your entire constituency. You may consider my view to be unique but you'd be wrong in your assumption. Indeed, you have a far greater volume of "Ravers" in your constituency than you might care to think.
It is all too easy to underestimate support at local level on an issue as important as the criminalisation of attendance at cultural gatherings, but I assure you that a sufficient numbers of your constituents will make their feelings known at any future local elections, should they not be consulted or simply ignored on issues of political and cultural significance.
It would be naive of ravers to underestimate the negative impact of gatherings on a local community but it would be equally naive of anyone who has never attended a rave to assume, that it has no bearing on reducing crime or has no positive impact on the lives of those who attend. Several of these key issues are often overlooked when discussing or proposing new legislation to counteract "Raves" and the balance must be redressed if any progress toward a solution is to be found.
Whilst I have only lightly touched upon the reasons for the growth of "rave" and the cultural influences surrounding them, there are many more issues that I feel need to be examined before any legislation is proposed and would like to request an appointment with yourself in order that the matter be discussed further.
Draft 2
This has all made me a bit paranoid! Im really pissed off! Me and some mates had finally got our arses in gear and saved up a bit of money for a rig! We had started planning a party found locations ect!
And now once again theres been a riot! With ALOT of press coverage! (majoraty very very biast against us)
Now im paranoid as fuck and wondering weather it would really be worth the risk!
We through a small party on private land for a friends birthday the other day! And although the system was small and it wasnt really free party massive there it was still a wicked night!
Mabye have to try and concentrate on doing legal events but there just not the same! I want the people and the culture! The moshing and the K holed people lying on the floor!
I want it to be a illegal!12
stumblefunk/sheffield did anyone go to either of these parties? well ur all probably still there :lol_big:
i really wanted to go but i had no way of gettin there
what rigs were at the sheffield party?12
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