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November 22, 2006 at 9:03 pm

#715755
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

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its before my time but didn’t Britain do this via the NHS until the 1970s, but abandoned it (despite the project showing some signs of success) as the usual Middle England moaners and whingers complained that it was “giving in to the addicts?” and resented the NHS resources being used for this purpose?
November 23, 2006 at 12:09 am

#715783
1

globalloon

@globalloon

Member
before prohibiton there were less than 60 heroin addicts in the UK

prohibition created an illicit supply. one that presented a nasty but obvious opportunity to organised criminals. the result is what we have now
November 23, 2006 at 9:30 am

#715936
1

SD

@sd

Member
Raj wrote:

I have never understood why the drugs programs use methadone to try and help opiate addicts get clean; its more addictive and more toxic than the heroin it is supposed to replace and probably more expensive too

Because its ‘socially acceptable’ to have your drug prescribed through a gp. Problem is methadone is nothing like Heroin and the user has to WANT to get clean for it to work. By the way methadone costs pennies and thats probably the reason its favoured over drugs like buprenorphine. I agree this is the way forward but would the goverment control and prescribe street heroin or clean diamorphine? Again I have injected both in the past and they are very different, there is no rush with diamorphine and thats the bit you want. I ended up taking 5 amps and didnt feel a thing, it just isnt the same….
November 23, 2006 at 11:05 am

#715839
1

Raj

@raj

Member
The reason street heroin and diamorphine are not the same in terms of euphoria is likely to be that street heroin is not as pure, that means that along with the heroin there will be some raw opium and other contaminants from its synthesis and whatever it was cut with by the dealers.

As all opiates are converted by the liver into the same chemical [morphine] it is strange you found that the diamorphine didn’t do as much to you. Perhaps it was that the lack of contaminants [poisons] meant your body didnt go into the adrenalin overdrive these cause [increased heart rate and therefore circulation] and the morphine was not boosted into your system the same way giving you a more gentle onset of the drug.

I think when you are on one of these programs you have already realised you have a drug problem and therefore are hopefully on the road to recovery; maybe a lesser euphoria would actually be beneficial on the path to becoming clean as you would enjoy it less and be less driven to keep doing it for this reason. [If you are still living for the hit are you ready to be quitting?]

What do you think?

Does anyone else have similar or different experiences to Subutex Detoxer?
November 23, 2006 at 11:55 am

#715840
1

Raj

@raj

Member
Here is another thought for consideration:

When you are using street heroin there is a ritual nature to the process – getting the cash together, finding a dealer to score off of, scoring, going to a place you can use it in, getting the works together and finally consuming the heroin and sitting back to enjoy the result.

Most users are rattling [in withdrawl] by the time they start the process leading up to getting the next hit therefore they are stressed and the process of scoring is illegal which adds to that stress. Add to that the pleasure of successfully scoring and the euphoria as the drug takes effect and the resultant relaxation as the stress is released. [And lets not forget the whole taboo nature of drug usage in general]

What you have is a substantial emotional ride where the worry about not being able to score and the stress of doing so are contrasted sharply with the reward for success which will add a great deal to the enjoyment of the drug.

Human beings require contrast to be able to experience things generally and without it the enjoyment is nowhere near as pronounced.

“if you experience joy it is because of sadeness…if you believe in god it is because of the devil”
[from Enigma MCMXC]

Maybe if the drug were available over the counter we would have a lot less heroin addicts out there as it would a far less rewarding addiction.
November 23, 2006 at 3:52 pm

#715773
1

n.r.g

@n-r-g

Member
up on till 1968 heroin was give on scirpt to addicts via shrinks as it was veiwed as a metal health issue i think it should be given to addicts as my sister was hoplessy addited and died of her addiction and personally i think the methdone method is a failure
November 23, 2006 at 5:45 pm

#715856
1

Sound-Guy

@sound-guy

Member
Seems fine, aslong as they provide for my ganja habbit
November 24, 2006 at 6:09 am

#715945
1

Johnsee

@johnsee

Member
Raj wrote:

Here is another thought for consideration:

When you are using street heroin there is a ritual nature to the process – getting the cash together, finding a dealer to score off of, scoring, going to a place you can use it in, getting the works together and finally consuming the heroin and sitting back to enjoy the result.

Most users are rattling [in withdrawl] by the time they start the process leading up to getting the next hit therefore they are stressed and the process of scoring is illegal which adds to that stress. Add to that the pleasure of successfully scoring and the euphoria as the drug takes effect and the resultant relaxation as the stress is released. [And lets not forget the whole taboo nature of drug usage in general]

What you have is a substantial emotional ride where the worry about not being able to score and the stress of doing so are contrasted sharply with the reward for success which will add a great deal to the enjoyment of the drug.

Human beings require contrast to be able to experience things generally and without it the enjoyment is nowhere near as pronounced.

“if you experience joy it is because of sadeness…if you believe in god it is because of the devil”
[from Enigma MCMXC]

Maybe if the drug were available over the counter we would have a lot less heroin addicts out there as it would a far less rewarding addiction.

Touche raj, a budding addiction specialist…fancy doin my uni work for me? I read your other post too, ever considered studying psychology? I think you’d make a good job of it
November 24, 2006 at 8:15 am

#715937
1

SD

@sd

Member
LOL Go Rajraaaraaa
November 24, 2006 at 1:28 pm

#715841
1

Raj

@raj

Member
Johnsee wrote:

Touche raj, a budding addiction specialist…fancy doin my uni work for me? I read your other post too, ever considered studying psychology? I think you’d make a good job of it

:groucho: :groucho: :groucho:

No actually I hadnt but I think I will go and research it – thanks for the pointer mate 😉

Feel free to use the info if you wish to :groucho: and you know where I am if you want to bounce ideas about :weee:
December 1, 2006 at 12:06 pm

#715756
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
Staff
Quote:

But you’ll get fuck-all support for legal smack in most of the western world…

the East is even more hardline.

This is a fallout and backlash from the days of the Empire when opiates were used to control and subdue native populations (Opium wars etc) – mixed with the fact that today the Eastern countries wrestle away work from the West as they have heavier social control of their population which makes them compliant and cheap workers
December 1, 2006 at 12:14 pm

#715946
1

audiocraft

@audiocraft

Member
I agree with Raj, everyone i know who does drugs does it because they shouldnt. And the ritulistic part is a big factor, time managment so to speak. i also think it applys to all drugs, not just smack
December 1, 2006 at 12:32 pm

#715757
6

General Lighting

@general-lighting

Moderator
Staff
Quote:

In Aus, there was a drug trial (Naltrexone) used for narcotic dependant people. The addict needed to to be admitted as an in-patient, and the drug (Naltrexone) would be administered whilst the patient was under a general anaesthetic. Naltrexone was used for rapid detox, (Irrespective of how many years the person may have been addicted) and generally removed all traces of the narcotic with hours. The cost for each treatment was AUD$16,000. Patients were’nt expected to pay for the treatment, (Even though treatment was performed in private hospitals)

The trials ended about 2-3 years ago. Naltrexone did what it was supposed to do. The problem was that patients (Now clean) were heading back into the environment they had just left. Same house mates, same money problems, same everything. Not enough effort was put into the social/psychological needs of the newly clean addict. So a lot began to use again, some even went through the rapid detox again. It was reprorted that one user had the Naltrexone treament FOUR times.

The heroin problem is’nt going to go away. The Netherlands tried a more liberal approach, ie: treating addiction as a disease, and that didnt work.

Methadone doesnt work. The threat of disease, or long stays in prison doesnt work.
Maybe the Gov, doesnt really want anything to work. After all, one lone addict provides employment for many, many people.

this is a common conspiracy theory – but I’m not entirely sure thats the case..

if it were true it would be a lot of pain, trouble and extra costs spread across society just to keep people such as cops, prison officers, drug workers etc in jobs, and its still diverting resources that could be used for other more positive purposes.

TBH I think that humans are dysfunctional enough that society would always need cops and prisons even if there were no drugs – there are people prepared to kill each other, nick stuff or even just drive badly and cause accidents when stone cold sober…

I think the reality is a simple lack of tolerance and acceptance and it often comes from the people in the street, not even the government and politicians.

the moment anyone from the authorities is seen to be “soft” on drugs , there are howls of protests from ordinary people – who complain that “money is being spent giving in to addicts.”

these people – (even some who take drugs themselves) want to see the addicts going through pain and hardship as it makes them feel better.

I reckon if it were possible to kidnap a homeless addict, lock them in a cell with a camera and make a reality TV show of them going through cold turkey whilst “normal decent citizens” were allowed to shout and rant at them it would be a hit – thankfully I expect Ofcom wouldn’t allow it and it would be illegal under human rights

“Civil” society is more fragile than many realise.
December 1, 2006 at 12:40 pm

#715947
1

audiocraft

@audiocraft

Member
Exactly so. we live in an admin. culture. i’ve got a dole inquest type thing comming up, 3 days of how to write a c.v. as allways i will tell them its not the writting of the c.v that is the problem, its the data (or lack of) and the fact i lost my carrer due to failing a drugs test thats the problem. then after that i have to go to another rewview with the dole to review the conclusions of the previous lot.how many people does it take to work out that i havent got any accademic quals and that i’ve had a drug problem and got a criminal record? also, recently, i was trying to get on a course up in hull. i checked, double checked and triple checked with the dole what i needed to do, i was only going away for 4 days to sort out paperwork and accomodation. when i returned, they told me i hadnt filled out a required form, cut my dole off for 3 weeks.this makes me a new claim in the eyes of anything like a crisis loan or the like, but they still make you do all the long term unemployed stuff. how many people are getting paid to sit there and think of ways to fuck my life up eh? the mind boggles.
December 1, 2006 at 12:42 pm

#715948
1

audiocraft

@audiocraft

Member
Rant over now
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